Talk:Lillehammer affair

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Untitled

I agree with your assessment here: "I'd like to ban the word terrorist from every article except Terrorism,"

That's Zero's assesment. However although one can state some doubt whether groups such as the PLO and the Irgun are/were terrorist groups, it is generally accepted that Black September, Hamas, Lehi and other such groups are considered terrorist. I am willing to compromise. How about we term the act terrorist as opposed to the organization? Few can doubt the murder of innocent non-combatant athlete-civilians far from a region of conflict would qualify as terrorism. -Leumi

Impossible. That would mean America is a terrorist state, since America routinely murders people when they attack other countries.

189.146.103.66 (talk) 17:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please sign your comments by using three ~~~ or four ~~~~ (they are known as "tildes"). Thanks. IZAK 10:03, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I found this phrase to be a bit vague: "The Israeli government attempted to deny responsibility..." It seems that if the government was attempting to deny responsiblity then they were denying responsiblity, so the sentence should simply read "The Israeli government denied responsiblity..." If, however, the parts of the Israeli government were denying responsiblity and parts weren't, then this could be characterized as an attempt to deny responsibility, as the article says at present. This would require a little clarification, though, and I doubt its the case. -Infernallek

I've changed the sentence and added a reference to the fact that Israel has paid compensation, but does not admit responsibility. Epameinondas 16:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why does this article even exist? It cites no sources whatsoever. 70.24.2.159 16:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

An article will not be deleted just because it lacks sources, but because it is a hoax, false, non-notable, etc. This even occured, but no one has taken the time to source it yet. Feel free to do so! Joshdboz 19:46, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My oh my, some people... Look, this was a very well-known incident - see e.g. [1] - and I find it rather laughable that you suggested this article might be a hoax because it lacks references without so much as doing a quick search about it on Google. Sorry, there are a lot of anti-Israeli myths out there (as I'm sure there are plenty of anti-Palestinian/anti-American/anti-whatever myths out there too), but this isn't one of them. (hmm, that came out more insulting than I intended! Apologies...) Thomas Ash 16:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Joshdboz wasn't suggesting that this article was a hoax, but rather explaining that "hoax" is one of the reasons that a given article could potentially be deleted.216.52.69.217 13:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification 216.52.69.217. I was just pointing out that this event is true, and that is why it is not being deleted, even though it has no sources. Joshdboz 18:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV

the leader of the assassins, managed to escape and was never extradited by Israel to face justice in Norway Justice is a bit emotive, would "trial" be better 195.92.40.49 15:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The main problem with using the term "justice" is that even if he had been extradited he probably would've gotten a laughably short sentence just like all the other assassins. 75.76.213.106 (talk) 02:44, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leyl-Ha-Mar

I beleive I saw somwhere that this event is known within the Mossad as Leyl-Ha-Mar which in Hebrew means Night of Bitterness and is a play on the name of the village Lillehammer. Should this be added in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.22.50 (talk) 22:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lawyer

Is there a source for the lawyer marrying one of the agents? Seems a bit odd to me.

Is now.A Taxed Mind (talk) 23:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agents

The article says there were nine agents involved, but lists more than a dozen names. Which ones are the actual agents? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.178.138.64 (talk) 01:16, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

203.59.84.61 (talk) 07:05, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge discussion

Looks like someone has proposed merging this with Ahmed Bouchiki but has not opened the discussion, so I'll do it:

Support - unfortunately Ahmed Bouchiki is notable only for the circumstances of his death so it makes no sense having separate articles dealing with each. – ukexpat (talk) 14:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - He's not notable outside of the Lillehammer affair. --Havermayer (talk) 00:11, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

trial and convictions

The article does not mention that 5 of the agents were convicted by Norwegian coutrs to several years of prison. As far as I know they were convicted for murder. --188.103.196.98 (talk) 14:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have amended this, and they were not convicted of murder, but complicity in the killing.A Taxed Mind (talk) 23:30, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Update following BBC World Service programme

The 10min radio article available indefinitely as a podcast cleared up a number of minor queries on this talk page so I updated the Article to reflect that. One problem is I can't get the References/Citations to number properly, the clipboard labelled "Named references" doesn't appear to be working properly for me. Anybody able to tidy up that for me? Much appreciated thanksA Taxed Mind (talk) 23:26, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please help with references again

Sorry again. Second sentence on third para of History , "The information provided to the Norwegian Secret Service by the captured agents was rapidly shared with its European counterparts." could have a reference from Chapter 18 of the "External Link; Further names of individuals involved in the affair". Is this a reliable text? or is it somebodys school homework...Any idea? ThanksA Taxed Mind (talk) 23:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracies

The introduction refers to "an innocent Moroccan waiter", and states that six of the Mossad team of fifteen were captured and convicted of complicity in the killing by the Norwegian justice system". I suggest that there are three issues with these statements.

First the reference to an "innocent" waiter. The implication is that if it had been the intended target the murder would have been ok. The reality is that assassination is murder, and illegal under Norwegian and Israeli law. It did not matter whether they killed the wrong person or not. They killed someone, and got caught.

Secondly the agents were not captured by "the Norwegian justice system". They were captured by police.

Thirdly, the agents were convicted by a court of law, not a "system".Royalcourtier (talk) 02:55, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Ahmed Bouchiki.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

convicted of involvement in the killing

Doesn't it sound more natural than "complicity" ? 85.193.228.103 (talk) 12:51, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"A female Mossad agent then jumped into the pool"

Why is the agent's gender relevant here?

Disputed account by Dan Arbel

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-07-15/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/the-mossad-agent-who-took-the-fall-for-the-lillehammer-fiasco-breaks-his-silence/00000189-561c-d481-afbd-5e3e49c80000

Dan Arbel disputes the account of events presented in this article. Notably, he said that multiple agents had warned Hameiri that Bouchikhi bore no resemblance to Salameh but he insisted on going ahead with the operation anyway. He also states that he had been informed that the Norwegians were cooperating with the Mossad, and that he had revealed the Mossad's involvement because he was certain he would be immediately released.

Can someone put this information into the article? It is on protected status and i am unable to edit the article. Question2005 (talk) 07:57, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Opening sentence

The opening sentence is a bit complex in my opinion. Currently it is

> The Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken) was the murder of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, by Mossad agents in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.

or

> The Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken) was the murder by Mossad agents of Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973.

Perhaps removing one layer of passive voice would be helpful here, something like

> Mossad agents murdered Ahmed Bouchikhi, a Moroccan waiter and brother of the renowned musician Chico Bouchikhi, in Lillehammer, Norway, on 21 July 1973 in what is known as the Lillehammer affair (Hebrew: פרשת לילהאמר, Parshat Lillehammer, Norwegian: Lillehammer-saken). Phiarc (talk) 11:23, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]