Talk:Turkic peoples

Full quote of Joo-Yup Lee 2023

Here is the full quote from the book [1] by Joo-Yup Lee 2023 added by user Bogazicili (bold parts are missing):

The lack of a common identity or a collective sense of Turkic consciousness in the pre-modern Turkic world may perhaps be explained from the fact that the Turkic-speaking peoples do not all descend from the Türks of the Türk Qaghanate or any other single ethnic group. Extensive DNA testing of the modern Turkic populations informs us that they are a heterogeneous entity in terms of patrilineal descent. In other words, they do not descend from a common ancestral group.9 It should also be noted that even the early Turkic peoples, including the Tiele and the Türks, were made up of heterogeneous elements.10 Importantly, DNA studies demonstrate that the expansion process of the Turkic peoples involved the Turkicization of various non-Turkic- speaking groups. The “Turks” intermixed with and Turkicized various indigenous groups across Eurasia: Uralic hunter-gatherers in northern Eurasia; Mongolic nomads in Mongolia; Indo-European-speaking nomads and sedentary populations in Xinjiang, Transoxiana, Iran, Kazakhstan, and South Siberia; and Indo-European elements (the Byzantine subjects, among others) in Anatolia and the Balkans.11 This process was a multi-layered one in that the Turkic peoples or tribal unions containing Turkicized elements of non-Turkic origins also went on to Turkicize other non Turkic indigenous groups as they made their way into new territories. For instance, the Oghuz, a Turkic tribal confederation that inhabited the Aral and Caspian steppes in the ninth and tenth centuries CE and, in time, became intermixed with Iranic-speaking elements in Central Asia, went on, as Ottomans, to Turkicize various indigenous groups, including Armenians, Greeks, and Slavs, in Anatolia and the Balkans.

If we quote something, it must be in full context.

I request that the full quote is added the citation "44" (Lee 2023, p. 4), specifically the first bold part. If not, it gives the reader a misleading conception that there is a "heterogenous Turkic component" when it actually became heterogenous by not sharing a common origin and later contact events, as explained in the full quote. 178.115.235.178 (talk) 19:22, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

That information is already available throughout the article. For example, in Turkic_peoples#Physiognomy:

Lee and Kuang believe it is likely "early and medieval Turkic peoples themselves did not form a homogeneous entity and that some of them, non-Turkic by origin, had become Turkicised at some point in history."

The exact quote you suggested is 258 words, up from current 89 words quoted. The book does not have a Creative Commons licence. It's simply too long. See: Wikipedia:Non-free content. Bogazicili (talk) 18:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Race

Why is there no race section? 79.106.203.96 (talk) 12:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 July 2024

Requires more citations. 64.189.18.41 (talk) 12:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 12:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2024

I want to add khitan people to historical turkic groupsTurkiishh (talk) 20:14, 26 August 2024 (UTC) Turkiishh (talk) 20:14, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. HansVonStuttgart (talk) 07:56, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

insert X khitan people in List of ethnic groups-under Historical Turkic groups Turkiishh (talk) 20:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

inclusion of hazaras?

hazaras are genetically related to uzbeks, uyghurs, and other turkic (and mongolic) people. although they don't speak a turkic language in the modern age, I believe it would still be reasonable to include hazaras in the list of turkic ethnic groups, if not in the main list then at least their own subsection with a short explanation regarding their genetic relation. 84.54.71.154 (talk) 13:06, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Etymology

The first known mention of the term Turk (Old Turkic: 𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰰 Türük or 𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰰:𐰜𐰇𐰛 Kök Türük)

According to Chuvash mythological essays, it is known that the concept of the word "Türük" (chuvash: Tĕrĕk) has a direct relation to the confession and religion of different tribes, uniting them into a single religion and faith.

It's like; Christians or Muslims, Buddhists, Krishnaites, etc.

So if Turk is the name of co-religionists, i.e. by confession, from the faith in 𐱅𐰭𐰼‏𐰃‎ Tengri (chv.Tĕncheri, dial.Tĕneri) and the sacred tree of Türük (chuvash: Tĕrĕk). Emphasizing the peculiarity of religion among the people within a certain religious teaching, as well as the unification of believers adhering to this religion. Then with the advent of Islam and baptism, Christians and Muslims appeared, instead of Türks. Until the 20th century, the Chuvash said that they were the last people who believed in the sacred tree of Türük (chuvash: Tĕrĕk), while the rest of their brotherly peoples became Muslims.

The version, based on an early analysis of the ethnonym at the beginning of the 20th century by the Danish Turkologist and President of the Royal Danish Scientific Society Wilhelm Thomsen, suggests that the origin of the term comes from the word "toruk" or "turuk", which can be translated from most Turkic languages ​​as "standing straight" or "strong", "stable".

The word "Turk" is translated as "Poplar", for example, the Chuvash still call the Turks "Tĕrĕk" (Dial. Terek, Tirek, Tűrĕk), which from the Chuvash language still means "Poplar". This is due to the fact that the "poplar" for the Turks was the "world tree" and the first Turks were made from it, its branches were used as bones!

uigur. терәк, uzbek. терак, kirgiz., kazah., k. kalpak., altai. tuva. терек, tatar. тирәк, bashkir. ак тирәк, nogai. антерек, turkman. дерек, turk. дирек агачи «тополь»; chagatai. ак тәрәк, turkman. ак дерек. k. kalp. ак терек, hakkas. ах тирек «серебристый тополь»; kumyk. терек «дерево», ак терек «осина»; uigur, hakkas. хара тирек, k. kalp. кара терек «осокорь»; - "Poplar"

The famous Altai folklorist Maya Petrovna Chochkina in her book “Altai Children’s Folklore” gives an example of such a lullaby:

Bye-bye, bye-bye,

Fall asleep, my child,

Marry the daughter of a rich man,

Bye-bye, bye-bye,

Fall asleep, my child,

Climb the sacred poplar, my child,

Marry the daughter of a rich man, my child,

Marry the daughter of a rich man, my child,

Slaughter a three-year-old lamb, my child,

Bye, my child, bye!

Turkish dialect direk - ‘pillar, support, prop’.

The word türek - from Chuv. türĕk - straight, apparently the aspen was called tÿrĕk - because of its straight, even trunk.

It turns out that tĕrĕk and türĕk - a pillar, aspen, which is a religious representation of Turkic mythology.

In Kazakhstan, the "BayTerek" tower was erected as a symbol of the "World Tree" Bäi+terek - Rich poplar. The Turks were called Тürk < Türük < Terek = according to their faith and mythology. The seeds of poplar fluff flew around the world and all the vegetation on the planet grew from them. The branches of the sacred tree Terek - Reaches the heavens of Tengri and its roots reach the goddess Umai underground. This tree connects all 7 levels of the world, 3 heavenly, ours and 3 underground. "Bayterek" with its location and compositional structure expresses the cosmogonic ideas of ancient nomads, according to whose legends, the World River flows at the junction of worlds. On its bank rises the Tree of Life - Baiterek (Kazakh. Бәтерек - "poplar", also "support, protector"), holding the earth with its roots, and propping up the sky with its crown. The roots of this tree, accordingly, are in the underworld, the tree itself, its trunk - in the earthly, and the crown - in the heavenly. Every year in the crown of the Tree the sacred bird Samruk lays an egg - the Sun, which is swallowed by the dragon Aidahar, living at the foot of the tree of life, which symbolically means the change of summer and winter, day and night, the struggle between Good and Evil. 5.101.22.174 (talk) 11:17, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Some Turkic peoples believe that Terek was originally called aspen, and therefore an aspen stake could be used to kill evil spirits that represented the forces of evil from the underworld. 5.101.22.174 (talk) 11:21, 28 September 2024 (UTC)