Talk:Robert Stethem

Robert Stethem article

"It is rumored, that..." it says in the arti. Since when is Wikipedia for rumors?

I can only imagine the horrors that Robert Dean Stethem suffered on that hijacked planed. Why was this his fate?

Anthony

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lets not forget that his killer was just released with a slap on the wrist

I wouldn't call parole after 19 years in prison "a slap on the wrist". (Dennis)

On the other hand, I wouldn't call it anything even closely resembling "justice."Benami 01:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

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In today's (2005-12-20) "Spiegel online", the online version of Germany's premier newsmagazine, i read Hammadi has been released "last week", not on Dec 20th. (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,391485,00.html, in German)

Dankwart

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Hopefully a "close encounter" with a Navy SEAL team is in the future for the released killer. Maybe he can be brought to justice in this country.

fellow Seabee

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I remember this incident. The most sickening thing for me was not the killing of this brave man (what do you expect from Islamist scum), but it was the interview with a female passenger, whose name does not deserve to be remembered. She was asked about the incident, and she said something to the effect of, "Well... he wasn't the smartest person I ever met." My reaction, as a teenager - and still today, as a 50 year old attorney, college professor and veteran of the armed forces, is... "FUCK HER." It was a reflection of the "malaise" phase of American life, where people felt like those in uniform were probably either trailer trash who could not get another job, or they were empty-headed in-bred hicks from the mountains of Appalachia. God help us all. ~~

I met Robert Stethem in the summer of 1984

We were in school in Pt. Huneme, Ca. in 1984. He was a handsome young man who was very proud of his standing with the Navy. He was very easily liked...by everyone. We enjoyed many nights out on liberty and he was a fine gentleman. We became good friends. I was sitting in my living room in Adak, Alaska (1985) when I saw his picture on the news. I was both shocked, and shaken to hear of his death. It will remain with me to my death. Bobby...I still think of you my firend! Rest in peace! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.162.5.11 (talk) 17:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Rating/insignia clarification

Stethem's grave marker says "SW2-DV" and the article says he became a "2nd class Navy Diver". Further down the marker, it shows "Honorary CUCM (DV)". In the article, it says he was promoted to Master Chief Constructionman.

This note says that when a BU, EA, or SW is promoted to E-9 paygrade (MCPO), they merge into CU, which is consistent with the CUCM reference. What I can't see is where Navy Diver (ND) fits in, nor is there any mention I can find in WP articles of what "DV" is. Can someone shed some light on this (i.e. is ND a new DV, and is this how multiple qualifications are stacked, though why wouldn't he have been promoted to DVCM (NDCM) instead of CUCM)?

Also, in our images and articles, we show the Command Master Chief and Force/Fleet Master Chief insignia, but the only other MCPO insignia appears to be the Master Chief Boatswain's Mate, with the crossed anchors, used generically for all other MCPO ratings. Do I understand correctly that there are really separate insignia with each rating's metal insignia below the eagle (except those that are combined, per the note above)? That is, in the case of Stethem, would be below the eagle instead of the BM's crossed anchors? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:27, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Navy Divers are awarded qualification insignia that they wear. The (DV) written after their rate is the officially recognized way of notating that qualification. The 'ND' that you mention is not officially recognized and is never used. His designation as a second-class diver is only coincidentally similar-sounding to his rate as a Steelworker Second Class. The two uses of 'second class' simply denote a lower ranking (one of Divers, and the other of Petty Officers) but are not tied to each other. And for your last question: yes. Each rating has its own unique graphical representation on their shoulder patches. Highspeed (talk) 17:43, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

With regard to the last question, just to clarify: BU, EA, and SW combine into "Master Chief Constructionman" at E-9. However, there is no "Constructionman" insignia (at least not at List of United States Navy ratings § Construction ratings). My question is which insignia is used then? Is it the rating they were promoted from (i.e. the BU, EA, or SW insignia), the "BU" insignia, or something else? Assuming the "BU" insignia, I created File:USN CUCM.png (shown at right), which I hope is correct, for Master Chief Constructionman (CUCM), no good conduct. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 07:59, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Also note that the "ND" came from List of United States Navy ratings#Engineering and hull ratings, which lists it as a rating, in parallel with others like BM, BU, and AB, and links to United States Navy Diver which also seems to be on par with other linked articles like Boatswain's mate, Builder, and Aviation boatswain's mate. Does this need fixing, or am I missing something? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 09:06, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

In reference to this article and the nuances of Navy ratings and Navy warfare qualifications, you have stumbled upon odd quirks as a result of some recent changes. ND and SO are relatively new ratings created during the mid-2000s. Prior to their creation, Navy Divers and SEALs were warfare qualifications earned irrespective of a sailor's source rating. In order for these personnel to advance in their careers on par with the rest of the Navy, they had to also occasionally work and train in their rating so as to insure their ability to pass advancement exams. As the Long War continued and the need for these highly-trained personnel increased, it was decided to create new ratings specifically to retain these special warfare skills in the war rotation and to give these sailors a better chance to advance. So, ND is a rating and (DV) is a qualification. Similarly, SO is a rating and (SEAL) is the qualification; and SB is a rating and (SWCC) is a qualification. A bit confusing, but I hope this makes sense. In regards to your rating badge observations, I don't know the answer to which insignia is used when rates combine. But I will start to look for the answer. By the way, if you ever see a CUCM wearing red chevrons & rockers, get a picture! I doubt that creature even exists. Highspeed (talk) 13:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

@Highspeed: Yes, that's quite helpful. With regard to red vs. gold, do you mean it's unlikely that they could get to E-9 without good conduct also? I used red for this article because there was no reference to a good conduct award (or is that separate from the Navy Good Conduct Medal?). Keep in mind he was only an "SW2" (E-5, right?) at the time of his death – the promotion to E-9 was a posthumous honor. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 23:38, 2 September 2013 (UTC)