Talk:Dardania (Balkans)

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The following sentence makes no sense, I have no idea where it comes from but there is no such word as 'producted' in English...: During the Aurelian Dardanorum and Trajan, in Dardanian mines was producted Metalli Vlpiani and Metalli Dardanici. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.220.101.142 (talk) 19:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For a taste of the level of discussion concerning the renaming of Kosovo, see this bulletin board: http://pub18.ezboard.com/fbalkansfrm35.showMessage?topicID=188.topic

--Wetman, 19:13, 27 Feb 2004

It is not true that Kosovars want to use the ancient name of Dardania to lay claim to western Macedonia. Such statements become even more bizarre when one suggests that Kosovars want to claim northern Albania. This it total nonsense.

If you think otherwise that's no problem. You have the right to your opinion, but that’s just an opinion, not a proven fact. Hence, if you think that the above nonsense should be included in the article, you must first prove this to others (including myself). Please do not waste time if your only source is some anti-Albanian, anti-Kosovar site. There is a lot of rubbish in many pro-Serb, pro-Macedonian or pro-Greek sites and I am having none of it.

By proof, I mean an official document of an international institution or an organisation with international reputation for being neutral and impartial. --Kosovar 03:05, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The Land where Pear-trees Abound

Will we ever be able to verify whether pear-trees actually do "abound in the area"? And did they "abound in the area" in ancient times? Needs more verification. Alexander 007 10:34, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The story about pear trees are naive. There is no evidence whatsoever that pear trees were cultivated in Dardania. Pear tree haven't come to Europe before expedition of Lucullus (I cen. before Christ) and the name Dardania should be older? And, after all, we haven't got reference to that paraetimology? --Manojlo 11:22, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And another thing. There is Dardania in Asia Minor (nort western part). Does that name have something to do with Albanian word pear? --Manojlo 18:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I am a registered user, but I don't feel like logging in. I am skeptical of the Albanian etymology of Dardania as I am skeptical of most of these very hypothetical etymologies; but I never implied that it is pseudo-linguistics or outdated linguistics (it might be as of 2006, I don't know). My understanding was that some specialists in the field consider or formerly considered such an etymology. In a book, The Illyrians, by a British archaeologist John Wilkes, the Albanian etymology of Dardania (from dardhë, "pear") is mentioned without comment on its veracity on page 85 of the first printing. Also, it is my understaning that the word ~~does also mean "cheese",~~ besides "pear". If so, this could offer another explanation of the original meaning. 69.224.116.250 22:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi User who is registered but doesn't feel like logging in, hypothetical are all ancient etymologies. But one should try to interprete them with the language of the local inhabitants, to see any connection. And clearly there is. I am not sure the same word can mean both pear and cheese. Does not make senseIlir pz 22:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I don't know. It may be a freak of memory. But if someone does verify the additional meaning, see this quote "References to Dardanian cheese, a famous and widely exported product, also testify to a large shepherding population." However, interpreting ancient toponyms through languages currently spoken in the area is in fact very hazardous, and has led to numerous folk etymologies, such as those Illyrian toponyms interpreted through Serbian or Croatian, or ancient Macedonian or Paionian through Slavic. Even apparently "clear" cases may be completely wrong, as in the case of Ljubljana in Slovenia; most linguists reject the popular Slavic etymology (from ljubiti, etc.). 69.224.116.250 23:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interpretations, interpretations...never ending argument. True that folk etymologies are inevitable in this case. It is true that there are several sources that show the population in Dardania were good at making cheese, but we are talking about the name Dardania itself. That is what I was saying earlier. Not sure how familiar you are with Albanian language, but the name "Dardhë" does mean pear, and usually adjectives in Albanian are made using the "ria" ending, and typically of northern dialect "nia", so the name becomes "Dardhania" (as it refers to northern Albanians). I can see a connection at least.Ilir pz 23:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kosovo-Dardania

What is this connection (that has been brought only recently) between Kosovo and Dardania? --HolyRomanEmperor 20:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HRE this connection has not been brought recently. Of course it is recent for you, if you have read only Serbian history. For the comment below, simple answer, lying and speculating is a lame characteristic. About Kosovo will its people decide how they want to call it. Cheers, HRE. Ilir pz 14:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, future name and Kosovo/discussion should not be the issue here. It is ancient land, and it shouldn't be connected with present day politics. I am urging Ilirpz (and his alter ego, Telex) to refrain from nationalistic interpretations of ancient history. --Manojlo 11:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, you misunderstood me. I was refering to why is this strange romantic nationalistic "Dardanism". I have seen loads of Albanian users lik "Dardanv" and there's even a WikiProject:Dardania instead of Kosovo. It reminds me of the Illyrian movement or the Aryan movement. Why is this age arising, I meant to ask? --HolyRomanEmperor 13:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dardan is a popular name in Kosovo, HRE, just like my name Ilir, or Artan, or Alban, or Teuta,...these are all names of people. Not any kind of strange romantic or nationalistic thing. Just as Sers proudly say they are Slavs, Albanians are explaining their roots in the region. I don't see any nationalism here. No need to speculate. Ilir pz 14:08, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh, Ilir, "romantic nationalism" is the era of dreams, writing poetry, acting world's most famous dramas and composing the greatest omnibi of the History of Music - Classism... --HolyRomanEmperor 16:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is strange about it then?Ilir pz 09:08, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History of modern state and regions as ir/relevant point for Dardania article?

I think it is irrelevant. Check Category:Ancient Roman Provinces.

--Manojlo 18:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Compromise?

I just edited text with compromise changes.

Noel Malcom can't be cited on pears issue, because reference is only to amazon.com.

And, that is my second bigger edit, Roman provinces are not to be part of history of modern states, provinces, regions, nations. Category reffering to History of Kosovo, Macedonia, Serbia, Albania, etc. were deleted. As I stressed above that is the principle carried through every other Roman province in the Wikipedia.

I kept A. Bue reffering to link between pears and Dardania, despite I hold that irrelevant. I kept it because I see it is very important for some users. It is also my personal try to settle things down.

--Manojlo 12:50, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is a book, Manojlo, I have it. If you wanna buy it, get it from Amazon. You are not trying to settle anything down, but trying any Albanian (or Kosovo)related article to make it sound Serbian. That is not very kind of you, thus intolerable. Ilir pz 13:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You should make reference to relevant text and not to book sellers advertisment. --Manojlo 13:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC) And Noel Malcom is not etymologist, isn't he? --Manojlo 13:42, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Noel Malcolm wrote a book on Kosovo, no matter what he is. And he is a respected writer. You cannot publish a book in Internet. So you have to buy it if you care. Feel free to read reviews if you are interested. 13:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I am not happy that you are rejecting any compromise. Noel Malcom is a journalist, his opinion is hardly relevant. For instance, he thinks that the name Dardania comes from special kind of chees. http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/istorija/malkolm/djankovic-facts.html

So we have pears in Dardania article, how about some chees? --Manojlo 16:51, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hehehehheheh now that is called a special type of vandalism, ironizing to extremes. Not pear but cheese. You are going too far man/woman. Your source is obvious, and can be seen from the airplane that is pro-Serbian, and as such is made for exactly the purpose you are using wikipedia, to make albanian-related articles as "serbianated" as possible. Not gonna work, not as long as my fingers can type here. Ilir pz 18:42, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You got me all wrong. Noel Malcom has a theory about connection with chees and Dardania. I don't appreciate him very much, after all he is just a journalist, but if you thnik that his oppinion is relevant,

(1) what is your specific reason to disbelieve his oppinion about cheese? (2) and on the another hand, what is your specific reason to believe in his pears theory?

--Manojlo 18:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC) edit: --Manojlo 22:13, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A Boue

Who is A. Boue? --Manojlo 18:53, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

French savant Ami Boue. So you reverted again ha? nice, counting towards the necessary number to block you. Go ahead.Ilir pz 19:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What does it mean savant Ami Boue? Can you tell me more? Any reference of work, biography, biblography, etc. And, please stick to the point. (I don't wish you to be blockaded). --Manojlo 22:08, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See Ami Boué. Telex 22:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand. Ami Boue was geologist? Why is (s)he relevant for Dardania question, specialy for the pears issue? --Manojlo 22:18, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Horrible revert war. You people should learn to talk. Leshkuq 00:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ilir's note...

...because it is the 21st century and highly unusual to do such things. --HolyRomanEmperor 10:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dardania means special kind of cheese

According to Noel Malckom, the name of Dardania comes from special kind of cheese. Reference added here http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/istorija/malkolm/djankovic-facts.html and in the text.

In the case of Roman provinces, history of modern regions or states as categories, are unusual. See, for instace, other provinces, such as: Pontus, Galatia Caria. Neither has category History of Turkey. So, Dardania should't have Category History of Serbia, or History of Kosovo.

--Manojlo 13:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HolyRomanEmperor and Manojlo your propagander agains everythig wat is albanians is a big argument for the albanians--Ejte 06:13, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Material

http://historia.shqiperia.com/iliret/mbreteria_dardanise.php
http://www.raremaps.com/maps/big/12003.jpg Ejte 02:40, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0300.htm
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1600.htm And the serbs call as "turk" hahaha
Wach this http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1800.htm he was independent

Nice map Ejte. Do you think you can get the copyrights, to publish them here? Ilir pz 10:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In "Travels in European Turkey" (London, 1850): E. Spencer gives an account of the Illyrian Empire:

...The Illyrians founded an immense empire extending from Epirus ... to the Danube and the Black Sea and comprehending the whole of the maritime coast of Hungary to Venice and Triest, with Istria, Carnolia, Carinthia, Styria, and Friuli... History and tradition affords us many interesting details of the battles of the Illyrians with the ancient Greeks and the Romans... Napoleon was well versed in the history of these people when he flattered their national pride...(Vol. I, pp. 93-94)

As indicated by E. Spencer, the Illyrians fought, in fact, for a long time against the Romans, who eventually conquered the whole of Illyria in A.D. 9. Many Illyrian soldiers, who susbsequently served in the Roman army rose to high positions. Some became emperors and viceroys: Claudius II, Aurelian, Probus, Diocletian, Maximilian, Constantius, Valens, and Valentinian. Mention should also be made of Saint Jerome, one of the greatest scholars of his time. The Illyrians gave to Byzantium three of its greatest emperors: Constantine, who officially accepted Christianity; Justinius, who built Saint Sophia; and Justinianus, famous for his Code of Laws. The philologist Paul Kretschmer went so far as to maintain that the Illyrians actually founded Byzantium.

Proud of what they considered their heritage (see E. Spencer, Travels... I, p. 94), the South Slavs became eager to recreate ancient Illyria by forming a union among themselves.

Albania was at that time a domain of the Turkish Empire comprising four vilayets or provinces: Shkodra - which included the Dukagjini Plateau (Metohija), Monastir (presently Bitolja), Janina, and Shkup (Skopje), presently in Macedonia. This latter province was more readily called Kosova by the Turks in memory of the victory of a battle on the Plain of Kossovo, the "Campo dei Merli" of old Venetian maps. The capital of this province had at times been Priština.6

6. According to A. Boue, the "battles" that took place were not fought on the plain, but on its "plates-formes" at Gasimestan, "one and a half hours north of Pristina;" the name of Kossovo, he explained, was applied later to the Plain of Sitnica and the surrounding territory (A. Boue, op. cit., I, p. 142).

Owing to the efforts of the committee headed by A. Frasheri,7 80 delegates representing all four provinces convened at the city of Prizren, in the Vilayet of Shkup (Kosova) in June 1878, three days prior to the opening of the Congress of Berlin, whose purpose was to reconsider the decision reached by San Stefano's preliminary Peace Treaty. The assembly of these delegates was henceforth called The League of Prizren. Its task was to defend Albania's rights.

Kosova became thus for the Albanians the center of their resistance and they have ever since regarded this territory as a symbol of their struggle for independence.

7. An Albanian patriot of broad culture (1839-1894). His younger brother, Sami, wrote in Turkish as well as in Albanian. Greatly admired for his Universal Dictionary of History and Geography (a six-volume encyclopedia) and for other writings, he is considered in Turkey as one of its most prominent poets. Having fought for Albania’s rights, he spent five years in prison. The sec.ond of the three brothers, Naim, is the most popular South Albanian poet.

As soon as the Serbs occupied the ceded territories, the Albanians were asked to evacuate them. With respect to the Albanians inhabiting those areas, Mr. Gould, Consul of Great Britain in Belgrade, wrote to the Marquis of Salisbury, Secretary of the Foreign Office of Great Britain, on Nov. 26, 1878:

I hear that the Servian Government has behaved with great and unnecessary harshness, not to say cruelty, toward the Albanians in the recently ceded districts. If my information is correct, and I have every reason to believe it to be so, the peaceful and industrious inhabitants of over 100 Albanian villages in the Toplitza and Vranja Valley were ruthlessly driven forth from their homesteads by the Servians in the early part of this year. These wretched people have ever since been wandering about in a starving condition in the wild country beyond the Servian frontier. They have not been allowed to gather in their crops on their own lands, which were reaped by the Servian soldiery... I ... casually stated to his Excellency (Ristic) that these facts had come to my knowledge, and that should they be confirmed I felt certain Her Majesty's Government and the majority of the Great Powers would call the Servian Government to account, and insist upon strict justice being done to these unfortunate people, whose only crime was their belonging to an alien race and another creed...10

10. EM., Accounts and Papers (38); 1878-9; LXXIX 79, 574-575. Letter reproduced by Rizaj in op. cit. pp. 24 1-242.

As to the number of the Albanians inhabiting those territories, various statistics and extant documents give contradictory figures. According to a note of the administrative divisions dating from 1873, the district of the Sandjak of Niš had about 100 000 Albanians. As regards the number of refugees, the figures given by Prof. J. Cvijic for those who settled in Kosova is 30 000, that furnished by English documents, 100 000. According to Turkish sources, the number of the Albanians who were forced to leave the region amounted to 300 000.

On June 3, 1978, Rilindja (p.7), published a letter addressed by these miserable people (who were deprived of all means and many of whom were sick) to the European Powers requesting that at least a commission be set up to look into their serious problem.11

Leaving these helpless refugees to their sad fate, the Serbs colonized the region with astounding rapidity. Referring to the colonization of the area by the Serbs, V. Cubrilovic stated in his "Memorandum" (about which more will be told later) that "Toplica and Kosanica, once Albanian regions of ill-repute, gave Serbia the finest regiment in the wars of 1912-1918".

11. For the data concerning the Albanians of these territories, see E. PlIana, "Les raisons et Ia maniere de Ia migration des refugies albanais du territoire du Sandjak de Nish a Kosova (1877-1878)," Gjurmime Albanologjike IX 1979, Prishtine, 1980, pp. 129-156. Cf. also R. MarmullakuAlbania and the Albanians , London, 1975, p. 24 (does not contain details).

The Great Powers eventually left the Balkans in the hands of Austria and Russia. The influence of the latter, however, grew stronger as time went by.

In regard to Kosova, Russia sent priests to Serbian monasteries situated in the region exalting, together with the Orthodox faith, heroes and deeds pertaining to Serbian legends.18 They opened schools which were hotbeds of Slav propaganda. Clearly, her purpose was to colonize the province where the Serbs were but an insignificant minority.

The West knew little at that time about the Balkan states. In fact, the ignorance was such that some missionaries who went to Macedonia to support the Bulgarian cause confessed that formerly they had been ignorant of the fact that there were Bulgarians in the Peninsula; they had thought that only Greeks lived there. Practically nothing was known, of course, relative to the Albanians; those unfamiliar with the question could be told anything. Thus, when two Russian consuls in Kosova and Monastir were killed by Albanians (who acted in self-defense), these acts were described as being committed by 'Moslem fanatics'. The two propaganda agents were presented as martyrs; their funerals were grandiose. Since Christianity was equated with civilization and Islam with backwardness, the Christians were regarded as the allies of the Great Powers. Thus the Catholic Albanians who are animated by patriotic feelings were ignored by design. The Albanians were depicted merely as backward Moslems and as allies of the Turks.

18. "It seemed sheer folly to make a large and costly Serb theological school in a Moslem Albanian town and to import masters and students, when funds are so urgently needed to develop free Serb land" (ME. Durham,High Albania, London, 1909, p. 275). Even E. Noel-Buxton, of the Balkan Committee, whose attitude was pro-Slav, had to admit that "The spirit of chauvinism is but thinly veiled under the garb of churchmanship. Religion is degraded to the level of pretext for exciting national zeal" (Noel-Buxton, op. cit. p. 50).

Many books and articles were published by the South Slavs for the purpose of showing the ferocity of the Albanians, their backwardness, their despicable behavior, their lack of discipline, etc. Vladan Djordjevic, former Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Serbia, went even so far as to claim that until "as late as the 19th century", there had been Albanians with tail in their rear! Djordjevic even referred the reader to J.G. Von Hahn's scholarly work, Albanesische Studien, where, he asserted, he had found the information.19

19. V. Djordjevic,Les Albanais et les Grandes Puissances, 1913 p. 8. No information of this kind is contained in von Hahn’s work.

The purpose of all these writings was, of course, to draw a picture that gives to the non-specialist a very poor idea of the Albanians so that these, by dint of being despised by others may, in their innermost soul, start to despise themselves.20

20. According to Felix Adler, "The vice of vices is when we are held cheap by others sod then in our innermost soul start to think cheaply of ourselves." Protic, Gopcevic, Zupanic, Tomic, Djordjevic are some of the Slav authors who criticized the Albanians in a particularly uncivil way. Many others may be cited.

To be sure, there are established scholars - be they geographers, historians, anthropologists, or serious travelers and explorers - who have expressed opinions of a very different kind: H.N. Brailsford went even so far as to maintain that "from Byron's day downward it would be hard to find a Western European who has learned to know the Albanians without admiring them" (The New Republic, March 1, 1919). In fact those who had nice words on behalf of the Albanians were so numerous that the Serb S. Protic (Balkanicus) considered the tendency to praise the Albanians as highly ethical individuals and to describe them as "unusually gifted", to have become a fashion.21

21. 5. Protic,Das Albanesische Problem und die Beziehungen zwischen Oestereich- Ungarn, Leipzig, 1913, p. 19.

The fact remains, however, that the latter writings were not accessible to many. The influential French daily Le Temps, published merely articles favoring the Slavs and Greeks, for France was then Russia's ally.22

22. "Le journal parisien Le Temps avait mis ses colonnes a Ia disposition de ces detracteurs comme il les avait ouvertes pour les Grecs.. .," — "The Parisian daily Le Temps was at the disposal of these calumniators [i.e., of the Slays] as it was also at the disposal of the Greeks (Lumo Skendo, Albanais et Slaves, Lausanne, 1919, p. 3).

In order to achieve national unity with a delimited territory, the League had requested the Porte, in July 1878, to turn Albania into one vilayet. The request had not been granted. As a consequence, the Albanians, under their gallant leader Isa Boletini, a native of Kosova, openly took a stand against the Turks. All their activities were centered in the Kosova region, which became the cradle of their national struggle and thus acquired a special meaning for them.23

In 1912, when the Albanians seized Shkup (Skopje) and were about to enter Monastir (Bitolja), the Turks called a truce and granted them autonomy uniting the vilayets of Shkodra, Janina, Kosova, and part of Monastir. As a result of this Albanian victory, the government of the chauvinistic Young Turks Party was overthrown. The weakness of Turkey became thus evident.

The Albanians had administered a heavy blow to the Turks and rightly hoped for approval and sympathy, for, as Lord Goschen had rightly pointed out back in 1880, if the Turks lost Albania, they would lose their cause in Europe. Instead, the Albanian victory triggered the Balkan wars, the purpose of which was the annexation of Albanian-inhabited territories that were under Turkish rule.

At that time, Montenegro had been free from Ottoman rule for over forty years; Serbia and Greece for over eighty. These states, being independent, had their regular armies. When attacked on all sides (by the Greeks, the Montenegrins, and, of course, by the Serbs, who entered Kosova), the Albanians, aware of the great danger, hastened to raise their flag and declared their neutrality.

23. SeeR. Marmullaku Albania and the Albanians, Hurst and Co., London, 1975, pp. 23-24.

The atrocities perpetrated by the Serbo-Montenegrins during the Balkan wars on the Albanian population were acknowledged by the Serbian socialist Dimitrije Tucovic (1881-1914) in his book Srbija i Albanija (published in 1946):

The bourgeois clamored for a merciless extermination and the army executed the orders. The Albanian villages, from which the people had made a timely flight, were burned down. There were at the same time barbaric crematoria in which hundreds of women and children were burned alive...24

24. Cited by R. Marmullaku, op. cit., p. 137.

Brutalities committed by the Serbo-Montenegrins are also described in the Carnegie report. They may be best summed up in two short paragraphs taken from Mary Edith Durham's Twenty Years of Balkan Tangle (1920):

No Turks ever treated Armenians worse than did the two Serb peoples treat the Albanians in the name of the Holy Orthodox Church (p.235).25

25. Cf. also Aubrey Herbert, M.P.: "Very little was known about Albania. The general opinion was that the Albanians were another branch of the Armenian family, and indeed, as far as massacres were concerned, this was most understandable . . ." (A. Herbert, Ben Kenilim,

London, 1924, P. 24). According to ME. Durham, the slaughters of the Armenians were nothing compared to those of the Albanians: "The massacres of Adana and the resultant misery pale before the scarlet horrors committed wholesale in cold blood by the so-called followers of Christ" (Durham, Struggle for Scutari, London, 1914, p. 303).

About these slaughters see 1. Albaniens Golgotha, Anklageacten gegen die Vernichter des Albanervolkes, gesammelt und herausgegeben von L. Freundlich, Vienna, 1913. — 2. Enquete dans les Balkans, Rapport de Ia Commission d’enquete de Ia Dotation Carnegie pour Ia Paix internationale, Paris, 1914.

As for the Balkan Slav and his vaunted Christianity, it seems to me all civilization should rise and restrain him from further brutality (p.238).26

26. What surprised ME. Durham quite specially was the religious fanaticism of the Serbs:

"It was not astonishing that the Serbs hated Islam, but that they should fiercely hate every other Christian church, I had not expected. The Catholic was hated the most." According to Durham, the Moslem was to the Serbs "a lesser evil than the Catholic," (Twenty Years of Balkan Tangle, London, 1920, p. 52). "The hatred of the Serb Orthodox for the Catholics was shown in 1913 in the Balkan war, when the Montenegrin troops, whose object was said to be to liberate Christians, fell upon the little church of Mazreku, trampled the Host underfoot, dressed up in the priestly vestments, danced about, and amused themselves by cutting noses from images of the saints and firing bullets into the crufix" (Some Tribal Origins ... p. 28).

In 1913, a number of soldiers led by a bandit clad as an Orthodox priest stripped and bayonetted to death Luigj Palici, an Albanian Franciscan from Gjakova, because he refused to cross himself in the Orthodox manner. "Austria intervened sharply. Had she not done so, in the words of a Catholic refugee, there would not have been a Catholic left" (E.C. Helmreich, The Diplomacy of the Balkan Wars, Harvard U.P., 1938, p. 317).

In 1919, a treaty concerning minorities was signed at Saint-Germain-en- Laye whereby the Yugoslav Government pledged to protect all citizens without discrimination as to race, nationality, and creed. Yet the persecutions against the Catholic Kosovars continued. Mother Teresa’s father, a native of Shkup (Skopje), and a noted Albanian patriot, was poisoned by the Serbs, as reported by his son Lazer Bojaxhiu in an interview published in Gente (Dec. 1979 andJan. 1980). Mother Teresa’s family was obliged to move to Tirana, where her mother and sister died (the former in 1974; the latter in 1976).

In 1929, was executed Father Shtjefen Gjecovi, a Franciscan, greatly respected by all the Albanians for his erudition and his righteousness. As a result, on May 5, 1930, three Catholic priests, obliged to leave the region, addressed the "League of Nations" a memorandum concerning the tragic plight of the Albanians in Yugoslavia (see H. Kokalari, Kosova, Rome, 1962, p. 165).

It should be reiterated that the unbelievable massacres were in no way committed as a result of a struggle between Christians and Moslems, as it was at that time believed by Gladstone and stressed in his speeches.27 They were solely motivated by the desire to decimate the Albanian race. Not only Kosova was coveted, but all of North Albania

27. Cf. E. Noel-Buxton: "Mr. Gladstone said, the Christian, who retained his faith at the price of slavery, when by recanting he could obtain every favour, is entitled to the name of martyr and to him Europe owes the gratitude" (op. cit., p. 27).— That the conversions of the Albanians would be taken as a pretext to expand territory was already pointed out by A. Boue who was for the freedom of all nations and had little respect for those who "for sheer purposes of invasion consider themselves chosen by God to exterminate the Moslems and make people happy." (". . . chez ceux, qui s’intitulent, par pure politique d’envahissement, les elus du Tres-Haut pour l’extermination des Musulmans et le bonheur du genre humain," Boue, Recueil d’itineraires dans Ia Torquie dEurope, 1854, I, "Avant-Propos."

During World War I, Albania's neutrality was not respected and mass massacres continued.

At the turn of the century, the reports of the Ohio journalist J.A.Mac Cahan concerning the Bulgarian uprising, had shocked the West; as known, Russia used these accounts as a pretext to march against the Turks. By contrast, the Albanian cause did not benefit from the Carnegie report, nor by the frequent and moving declarations of philanthropists and journalists who, like M.E. Durham, were eyewitnesses to mass massacres of women and children, simply because it was not in the interest of the Great Powers to take Albania's defense.28

28. No study is available on ME. Durham, except for that of Sh. Shaqiri, "ME. Durham dhe Shqiptar&,"Nentori, Oct. 1981, pp. 149-164. A talented painter and writer,a good historian and an excellent anthropologist (her diaries and other papers are available at the "Royal Anthropological Institute of Gr. Br. and Ireland," London, of which she was a member and to whose journal, Man, she contributed many articles), she also worked as a volunteer in Montenegrin hospitals as well as for the "Macedonia Relief Fund." Her first book was devoted to the Serbs (Through the Land of the Serbs, London, 1904). But, as pointed out by Aubrey Herbert, it was only their revolting cruelty that turned her affection into dislike" (A. Herbert, Ben Kendim , p. 220). Her later attitude toward the Serbo-Montenegrins is conveyed by a passage contained in Twenty Years of Balkan Tangle: "On arriving in London I packed up the Gold Medal given me by King Nikola and returned it to him stating that I had often expressed surprise at persons, who accepted decorations from Abdul Hamid, and that now I knew that he and his subjects were even more cruel than the Turk, I would not keep his blood-stained medal any longer. I communicated this to the English and Austrian press. The order of Saint Sava given me by King Petar of Serbia, I decided to keep a little longer till some pecularly flagrant case" (p. 25).

The well-known Swiss geographer H. Hauser, rightly pointed out that the principle of nationality, like all other principles, cannot be applied in a strict and equitable manner given the fact that most places constitute, with respect to the population inhabiting them, a mosaic.29

29. H. Hauser, "Le principe des nationalites," (30-page pamphlet, reprint fromRevuepolitique internationale, March-April, 1916). See also A. van Gennep,Traite des nationalites, 1922, p. 24.

In 1878, Lord Goschen and Lord Fitzmaurice had been in favor of a large Albania comprising the Albanian-inhabited territories of the four vilayets.30 But, at the Congress of Berlin it was decided -as already pointed out - that territories indisputably Albanian be handed over to Montenegro and to Serbia. Places connected with Albanian history and national pride, like Janina, Arta, Preveza, were allotted to the Greeks, who within a relatively short period of time were to exterminate the overwhelming Albanian population inhabiting them. No system of guarantees was applied. Albanians, numbering hundreds of thousands were to be forcibly sent to Turkey.

The manner in which Albanian territories were ceded to neighboring states clearly indicates how arbitrary decisions that make history may be. And one cannot but agree with Mircea Eliade (The Myth of the Eternal Return), who, with respect to the theory that valorizes historical events, to which the 19th century attached so much importance, pertinently remarked that such a theory could have been established only by thinkers who know nothing about injustices and miseries caused by history.

30. A. Herbert, op. cit., p. 216 and M.E. Durham, Twenty-Years p. 83.

Albanian population lived, remained outside the borders assigned to her.31 As Lord Fitzsimmons rightly remarked, "Albania was to start her career as a state mutilated from her birth". Indeed, as a nation humiliated in her pride, she had no place among her sister nations. She was doomed to poverty, bitterness, and complete isolation.

In regard to Kosova, a territory where Albanians displayed their most important activities for the independence of their nation and a region which, as some scholars contend, is the cradle of the Albanian people, the principles of ethnicity and self determination were not observed. Nor had they been taken into account when districts indisputably Albanian had been allotted to Montenegro and Serbia by the Treaty of Berlin. At that time, the principle of history had been ignored as well.

31. The tragic fate of many of these Albanians, who remained outside the borders assigned to the state of Albania, was to populate Asia Minor. As indicated (p. 10), the guarantees stipulated by the Treaty of Berlin were not honored by Serbia. Likewise, over 300,000 Albanians inhabiting the regions ceded to Greece were expelled by the Greek Government and obliged to settle in Turkey as a result of an exchange treaty of the Turkish and the Greek Governments (see, among others, A.A. Pallis, "The exchange of populations in the Balkans," Nineteenth Century, March, 1925, pp. 376-387). Pallis begins his article by saying that ‘the exchanges of populations, as a method of settling the problems of minorities, has been condemned in many quarters as a barbarous and dangerous innovation in internal politics." The Greek delegate at the Lausanne Conference had, in fact, declared that ‘Greece agrees that the compulsory exchanges shall not be applicable to her Moslem subjects of Albanian origin." However, the Greeks declared the Moslems of Tchameria as being "merely Albanophones," but in reality Greeks, and on this basis forced them to emigrate (Pallis art. cit.). Pallis argued that they emigrated of their own accord and that they were pleased in Turkey. This, however, is not the opinion of Ruth Pennington who returned to England in 1927 after ten months of work with the immigrants, ‘In Turkey the are 300,000 Albanian-speaking immigrants. Of these at least 10% would willingly shift their quarters and move again seeking for better land, to rejoin cousins and friends, who have already moved. Turkey does not wish for any further depopulation, but in spite of official prohibition, for the next 10 to 20 years there will be a constant leakage . . ." (Near East and India, Sept. 15, 1927, p. 333).

Although in 1913, the population of the south Albanian region ceded to Greece was over 90% Albanian, no Albanian schools or newspapers were ever allowed. This population has been almost extirpated on account of the harsh treatment to which it was subjected.

When, following World War I, the Dalmatian question was discussed, the fact that the West Adriatic coast had previously belonged to the Venetians, Austrians, Hungarians, and - in parts - to the Turks, and that, moreover, Slav colonization of the Coast was a relatively recent event in history (for, although the Slavs had settled in some parts of the Coast already in the 7th century, colonization was still going on as late as the beginning of the 20th century),32 did not have an adverse effect relating to the claims of the South Slavs. According to M.R. Vesnic, ...except for historical arguments... no present day consideration would authorize Italy to spell out such pretentions. Economically, geographically, and from the point of view of morale, these shores are inseparable from the hinterland which is Yugoslavia.33

32. Austria supported the Slavs against the Italians. Cf. M.E. Durham: "The Slavizing process in Dalmatia visibly progressed until the German-Austrians began to realize that they were warming a viper and feel nervous" (Twenty Years p. 13); cC. also U. Biscottini, Sull italianita della Dalmazia, 1930, p. 55.

33. MR. Vesnic, Les aspirations nationales de Ia Serbie (no date) p. 16.

Thus, disregarding historical considerations, Yugoslavia was allotted territories that were vast beyond her wildest dreams: to her devolved the beautiful Dalmatian Coast, where the Slavs had not ruled before, except for brief periods of time (a claim contested by the Hungarians) on some portions of it; to her was ceded Macedonia where the Serb population was insignificant and to which the Serbs had no claims before 1885;34 to her was allotted the Vojvodina (Banat) where a certain number of Serbs had been hospitably allowed to settle in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. The newly created state of Yugoslavia also retained territories which, regardless of the principles of ethnicity and self-determination had been previously granted to Serbia and Montenegro by the Treaty of Berlin and forcibly annexed by them.

34. In 1880, the French consul in Scutari, when describing Macedonia in an "Aperiu geographique" of Albania, prepared by him for the French Government, did not even mention the Serbs: ‘La Macedonie est en effet partagee entre les Albanais, les Grecs, les KutzoValaques et les Bulgares," — Macedonia is divided between Albanians, Greeks, Vlachs, and Bulgarians," (unpublished document contained in Albanie, Dossier I, "Archives de la Defense," Chateau de Vincennes, Paris). Cf. also M.E. Durham, The Serajevo Crime (London, 1925): "When I was living in Ochrida in the winter of 1903-4, a Serb schoolmaster had but just arrived. The largest school in town was the Bulgar one. The Greeks made a bad second. In spite of all his efforts, the Serb only succeeded in scraping up about 50 persons including his own family, the Greek priest and myself, to celebrate Saint Sava’s day. The majority were poor school children picked up in the town. In those days anyone who said that the Serbs would one day own Ochrida would have been thought insane" (p. 27). II ‘Dr. Milovanovich admitted in 1898 that the Serbs did not begin to think about Macedonia till 1885" (E. Noel-Buxton, Balkan Problems and European Peace, London, 1919, P. 27). /1 In regard to Macedonia, A. van Gennep, citing the Carnegie Report, criticized the Serb scholars Belic and Cvijic, attributing no scientific value to their research, because their sole purpose, according to the Carnegie report, was "to support the political claims of Serbia" (Van Gennep, Traitet? &s nationalites, Paris, ed. Payot, 1922, P. 202).

Faust, when translating the New Testament into his mother tongue, rendered with "action" the meaning of "logos", thus writing: "at the beginning was action".35 As prototype of modern man, Faust did not believe in the fascination and power of the word, as traditional doctrines do. Since then, however, sociologists and anthropologists, especially Frazer, have pointed out the magic that not merely traditional doctrines, but also the so-called primitive peoples attach to certain words and names, the use they make of them in myths, and how these myths affect them. In his turn, Freud has rightly remarked that the primitive mind is contained in all of us. We are impressed by words. Indeed, the suggestive power emanating from some particular words and names that affect our unconscious, especially when used in myths, surpasses action. More exactly, words may become dynamic symbols; they automatically generate action owing to the very magic contained in them.

In fact, Old Serbia acquired for the Serbs a magic power similar to that contained in Illyria.

a. It was asserted that Stara Srbija was the cradle of the Nemanjis, the Serbian kings. Special emphasis, in this regard, was laid on the Glorious Empire of Stefan Dušan.

b. Of foremost importance was considered the Battle of 1389 against the Turks on the Field of Kosova. It was somehow implied in various writings that Czar Dušan's Empire was sacrificed on that battle which was said to have been fought by the Serbs alone to protect Europe.

c. The Serbs who wanted to prove that the Albanian-inhabited region had formerly been ethnically Serb, underscored and proclaimed widely what it became known as the Serbian Exodus or the Emigration of the Serbs to Hungary. It was stressed that the Serbs, as a result of the Austro-Turkish wars of 1690 and 1735, had been obliged to evacuate the region and emigrate to Hungary under the leadership of their bishop, Arsenije III Crnojevic. And that, subsequently, the land, once vacant, had been colonized by the ferocious Albanians assisted by the Turks. The Albanians inhabiting Kosova were thus considered as recent settlers who had no right to be there.

These important issues which played a paramount role in the delimitation of the Albanian borders shall be discussed in PartII.

33. MR. Vesnic, Les aspirations nationales de Ia Serbie (no date) p. 16.

Now is History of Kosovo

YES, YET YOU SEEM TO LEAVE OUT THE FACTS THAT THE REGIONS YOU MENTION HAD ALWAYS BEEN INHABITED BY SLAVS. THERE IS NO MENTION, NO RECORDING, NO ACCOUNT OF ANY ALBANIAN STATE ANYWHERE. YOU CLAIM ILLYRIAN ANCESTRY, AS IF TO JUSTIFY ALBANIA'S TERRITORIAL, TERRORISTIC, AGRRESSIVE WAR-MONGERING. NOT JUST SERBIA, BUT MACEDONIA AND EVEN NORTHERN GREECE. YOU SEEM TO FORGET THAT KOSOVO WAS THE CRADLE OF SLAVIC CIVILISATION IN THE BALKANS, NOT ALBANIAN. FROM THE 5TH CENTURY SLAVS SETTLED THERE AND MIXED WITH THE ILLYRIANS, THIS IS WRITTEN IN THE CHRONICLES OF THE BYZANTINE EMPERORS. THE ONLY STATES THAT EXISTED THERE WERE SLAVIC (1ST BULGARIAN, THEN SERB). WHAT ALBANIAN STATE EVER EXISTED IN KOSOV0, OR ANYWHERE FOR THAT MATTER ?. REFER TO THE HISTORY OF ALBANIANS HERE ON WIKI, IT IS SCANT- 2 PARAGRAPHS. YOU FORGET THAT CRUCIAL POINT THAT , WHEREVER THE ALBANIANS CAME FROM, THEY WERE A SCATTERED, SHEPHERDING PEOPLE WITH NO STATE. IT WAS ONLY DURING OTTOMAN TIMES THAT THEY BECAME THE MAJORITY IN KOSOVO. WHY? BECUASE OVER 90 % CONVERTED TO ISLAM AND HELPED THE TURKS PURGE THE CHRISTIANS. NATURALLY, FROM THE MOUNTAINS IN ALBANIA THEY MOVED INTO THE PASTURES OF KOSOVO, DISPLACING THE SERBS. THIS IS YOUR TRUTH. ALSO, REFER TO THE 1911 BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA , DIRECT QUOTE - "ALBANIANS WERE REFERRED TO AS THE SCURGE OF EUROPE". ENOUGH SAID.

Etymology, again

I've removed the WP:OR claim about the Greek mythological figure "Dardanos" as the alleged etymology of "Dardania"/"Dardanoi". It was completely unsourced, and the claim that it is the "most likely" origin is obviously POV. In fact, it's most probably nonsense. All ancient tribes had eponymic founder figures in Greek mythology (from "Hellen" and his various sons representing the Greek tribes (Dorus, Aeolus etc.), to Thrax, Illyrius, Pelasgus, Aegyptus, Libya and so on so forth. Obviously, all those countries were not named after the legendary figures, but the legendary figures after the countries. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:03, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That was introduced into the article by User:Dardanos 6th January 2007, no citation. Lisa the Sociopath 20:08, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Phew! And I was about to update the etymology of the state of Malacca after that well known Greek hero... or was it the soft cheese? Well, you learning something every day :-) Politis 20:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not to mention the eponymic founder of Pustec... Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Many names the Greeks gave to tribes and peoples were exonyms.For example Aegyptus was a mythological charakter but Aegypt was not called Aegypt by its people.Megistias (talk) 13:27, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Map is not proper

The map given is of the roman provinces......Megistias (talk) 13:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]