Talk:Saguaro

Species

Maybe mention that it gets its name from Andrew Carnegie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.107.213.34 (talk) 23:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, he is talking about the taxonomical/scientif classification. Skiendog (talk) 22:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Endangered status?

They're really listed as endangered? They're all over the place in southern Arizona. A2Kafir

"According to Kate Kajtha, a biologist at Boston University...Saguaro National Monument near Tucson has lost more than 50 percent of its giant cactuses in the last 50 years due to a mysterious affliction...Some scientists suspect that air pollution from local mining smelters may be involved, but the affliction...can be found even in remote parts of the Sonoran Desert in northern Mexico. This has led researchers to consider the possibility that the rapid spread of the disease may be linked to increased ultraviolet (UV-B) radiation...symptoms appear on the south side of the plant, the side getting the most sun and therefore the most UV-B rays. Tellingly, in shaded saguaros, the disease is not found at all."[1] Kwantus 21:48, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)

They may dominate the Sonora desert, but they are also endemic to it. Plus, protecting them protects wildlife that use them, such as gilded flickers, elf and pygmy owls, and desert tortoises.

There were side-by-side time-lapse photos showing the reduced population of saguaros decades ago; pollution? I am not sure where.

Growing Conditions

What type of conditions are needed for a saguaro to grow? Soil composition? Weather? Why does it naturally grow where it does and not in other places?Nestorfi (talk) 23:20, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Where is it illegal? Nationally? Ealex292 20:27, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, the saguaro is a federally protected species.

Umm, I read somewhere that its rumor that it takes 75 years to grow a sideshoot, clarification anyone?

It takes about 50 years for a saguaro to *bud* a branch, and much longer to develop that branch into anything resembling an arm. So 75-100 years is about right for a saguaro with well-developed arms.

No thet're not listed as endangered. Accourding to Saguaro National Park Biologist Don Swann, "There is substinatial regrowth on the order of 125% of the Saguaro populations, that was on a decline during the early part of the century due to cattle and deforestation of local mesquite trees that serve as nurse trees for young Saguaros." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.83.15.194 (talk • contribs)

That doesn't mean that they're no longer listed as endangered. Do you have a reference to a published work that says otherwise, clearly and unequivocally? Postdlf 20:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

No they're not endangered. http://www.desertmuseum.org/center/edu/faq_desert.php#4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.83.15.194 (talk • contribs)

You keep using "endangered" in the factual sense, as in the question of whether this plant is actually in danger of extinction. The article uses it in the classificatory sense—has this plant been classified as "Endangered" by an authoritative body? See Wikipedia:Conservation status for an explanation. That being said, I'd like a clear cite as to the Saguaro's present conservation status so we can just put this to rest. Postdlf 00:21, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

A worker for the Royal Botanic Gardens has classified the entire Cactaceae family as endangered (Hunt, D. (comp.). 1999. C.I.T.E.S. Cactaceae checklist. Ed. 2. Royal Botanic Gardens & International Organization for Succulent Plant Study, Kew, England.), however, it is not on the U.S. Fish and Wildlife list of threatened or endangered species. The saguaro populations in arizona are fairly healthy and robust for now, but increasingly their habitat is being overrun by Buffel grass. Buffel grass carries fire well and frequently, and since it can take a saguaro ~25 years to grow above 1 meter, saguaro populations invaded by buffel grass or with the potential to be invaded by buffel grass will be wiped out through their inability to recruit new plants. I think the threat of buffelgrass alone puts the saguaro, and the entire Sonoran ecosystem as we know it today, in jepoardy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nenglish (talk • contribs) 03:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

One thing that did happen recently was that nearly all the saguaros in the Phoenix metro area that were in highway and street medians were removed, when it became apparent to those that maintained the roads that vehicle exhaust was affecting the plants adversely. Prior to the mid-90s it was common to see them in the landscaping on Phoenix's then-developing freeway system and in median strips or 'street islands' on many newer roads.

However, conflicting with that is the fact that Tucson area roads still have them. In fact, there's a gas station on Kolb Road that has one just feet from the road, right on the corner by the traffic light mast. It has at least three arms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.27.128.110 (talk) 01:16, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Nurse Plants

Does anyone know more about the life cylce of the plant that can add information about the 'nurse plants' referenced in the quote below?

According to Saguaro National Park Biologist Don Swann, "...due to cattle and deforestation of local mesquite trees that serve as nurse trees for young Saguaros." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.137.39 (talk) 11:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Saguaros propogate from seed and don't do that well out in the open. Birds eat the seeds and and set on limbs in larger Mesquite trees. The bird droppings contain saguaro seeds that germinate and begin growing under the Mesquite trees. Some of these trees can be sizeable, and they provide shade and nourishment for the new saguaro as it starts it's life. By the time the tree is old and dies the saguaro will be several feet high and can sustain life on it's own. The 'nurse plant' concept refers to the any tree large enough that could provide shade, nourishment and a place for birds to land and roost. However, most young saguaros are found under Mesquite trees. Thomas W. Bronk (talk) 21:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Copyrighted image removed

It was a beautiful image, but I removed:

Image:single blossom small.jpg|Close-up of a flower

as it is copyrighted "All Rights Reserved" by the photographer, according to the image page. --NightMonkey 23:09, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

NRCS USDA Arizona Range Map

I'm entering a link to the Natural Resources Conservation Service database. Can someone explain how easy it is for them to update their Map profile? In Yuma County, Arizona, the Great saguaros continue to fluorish, and they alos live across the river in So. Calif., as their (CA) range map shows. Its range proceeds Northwestward towards the Mojave Desert, and should also be included in the lower elevations of Yavapai County, Arizona. So, I will enter these ( 2 ) range maps, and see if someone could get the USDA database updated with the two counties. --MichaelM..inYumaAZ--Mmcannis 04:17, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Generally, it is best to just add a single link to the main relevant page of an ext link (here http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CAGI10 ) and then let people do their own navigating round the external site (it isn't our job to show what's where on extenal links!). If the info is incorrect, it's better not to add a link at all, and find a better one (e.g. the map at the Fl. N. Amer. page, already linked) - MPF 12:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Also not sure but aren't the same cactuses growing in Baja California? Or are those different giant cactuses? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.33.70.223 (talk) 19:51, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

To answer the question immediately above: The plants growing in Baja California are Cardons .. not Saguaros. They get mistaken for Saguaros all the time tho. I have to disagree with some things this page said that I know are wrong. I grew up here in Arizona and hiked most of it and I've never seen a 70 foot saguaro. A Cardon can reach about 60 to 70 feet with a whole lot more arms .. however .. I've never seen a saguaro anywhere close. The biggest Saguaro I've ever seen might be between 40 and 50 feet and it was definitely a grandfather. Secondly, the article says that Saguaros never grow from cuttings .. yet I've seen it and done it many many times. I have a photo of one I just specified for a client and it is just off the charts crazy looking .. it is a 5' multi-crested saguaro with many arms and the funny thing was that it was taken from a saguaro whose trunk had died and so a local cactus nursery took the arms, planted them and they grew. One of them was planted just two months ago on my client's property. That same nursery has about 20 Saguaros growing via Cuttings on their grounds. There is a little difference in the look of one grown from a cutting. It is a little fatter at the bottom from having to be planted to it's midsection. The seed Saguaros have a thin look at the base of the cactus. I would be more than happy to give you my own photographs for use here. The picture on this page looks like an anemic Saguaro ;) The fruit is - highly - edible and I stress highly because most people would never think it was edible to begin with. The fruit makes great jams and candy. I would say it tastes something between a Kiwi and a watermelon. Hard to describe the taste. There are a bunch of Saguaros being planted most of the way up the 101 in Scottsdale btw. The Saguaro is a Keystone species and it should be mentioned. The Saguaro supports all of life. My God it has two root systems. It's shallow root system, I've read and heard, will give moisture to other plants around it in times of drought. The flying termite that lives in the saguaro doesn't like forest wood. It's amazing the process the Saguaro has that makes it's "Boots". I liken it to the way our skin scabs over a cut, the Saguaro does the same thing when a bug or bird injures it flesh and it hardens into a nest. The reason they are called boots is because of the way a quintessential Boot looks like. I have a picture of a Saguaro up near Rio Verde that "scabbed" a whole arm when some type of disease, bug or pathogen attacked it. It's one of the wierdest things I've seen in plants. There are so many incredible facts surrounding Saguaros that I'm surprised there is not three pages of information on it. I came here thinking I could link to this wikipedia page to explain about Saguaros and I can't yet .. there is just not enough info and too much inaccurate information still. I'll sign my name to this paragraph because I don't have an account with Wikipedia and if anyone wants to contact me feel free, I will help with this article if someone thinks I could help. As for sources, most of what I said is from experience and being up close and sometimes too intimate with them. 68.225.208.64 (talk) 10:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC) greg yodis 68.225.208.64 (talk) 10:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC) gregyodisdesign@gmail.com

Hi, Greg. There are two equally important requirements of a good Wikipedia article: it should not say anything that isn't true; what it does say should be based on reliable sources (see WP:RS). So it would be great to add more accurate information, but it has be be based on sources, not anyone's personal experience. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:47, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

clarity of description?

I don't know enough about this plant to make the changes myself - I visited the page for information. I found paragraph 4, about the flowers & fruit of the plant, to be very confusing. Perhaps it was written by someone whose first language is not English? Perhaps another editor might be able to improve upon it. Astonspider 01:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I too don't know enough to edit but found this sentence at the end of the first paragraph in the Flowers section difficult to understand:

   "Saguaros have a redundant pollination system, i.e. full fruit set is possible even if only a fraction of the pollinating species are present."

--98.191.121.244 (talk) 20:12, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Side Arms

The current text says that the Saguaro cactus takes 75 years to develop a side arm. This is a little unclear:

1) what does "develop" mean? do the arms ever stop growing? 2) can the cactus grow multiple side arms at a time?

Many saguaros have multiple arms, and they seem to grow on a regulsr basis together. One plant I saw in a cemetery in the Tucson area has instead of a trunk above about five feet, two arms.

One large specimen observed NW of SR 188 on the old 'Grapevine Airport' road (led to an informal airstrip between the highway and Roosevelt Lake that was seldom used), had 48 live arms and around the base it was littered with a number of fallen arms. Some of the arms came out of longer arms. The cactus may have been larger than the 'Champion Saguaro' mentioned in the article. The plant may have since died as I saw it over 20 years ago last and some that I know have been by the area say it no longer sppears to be standing.

There was one with possibly 16 arms on SR 77 south of Kearney that was fairly close to the highway and quite visible as well, and there may be similar large specimens elsewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.27.128.110 (talk) 01:10, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Ribs

The article mentions the ribs of the saguaro, but does not elaborate. The only information about the ribs of the saguaro that the article contains is a picture of a dead saguaro.

It may be helpful to add a short description andor a diagram of the ribs of a saguaro. Such a description of the ribs would describe how many ribs there are, where they are found, how far under the surface of the plant they lie, etc. With this extra information, the other parts of the article that mention the ribs would make more sense. -- B.D.Mills  (T, C) 05:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

B.D. I have lots of nice pictures of the ribs from both outside and inside live saguaro cacti. How do I post them to the site? Maybe I can send them to you offline and you can post them? Cheers mate! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nenglish (talk • contribs) 04:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

10 years later, this article is still unclear. The article is unclear because it lacks a separate section for a description of the plant. This is unusual for articles about plants. Compare these articles: Agave americana (Century plant), Sequoia sempervirens (Coast redwood). The article would be greatly improved if a separate Description section was added and the article reorganised.  B.D.Mills  (T, C) 03:33, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I added a short section on Saguaro ribs. It could stand further expansion, though, or some of those pictures. I suspect a lot of people don't know what's inside there and the "skeletons" are quite interesting. I don't think many people have studied the wood in any depth, though. Mostly, it seems to get used for rustic-looking knick-knacks these days, if at all. Even harvesting a bit of it requires written permission. 68.2.210.216 (talk) 19:23, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Highly edible?

From the section on the fruit, what does 'The fruits are highly edible' mean? How are they 'highly' edible, rather than just edible? And shouldn't that be plural 'fruit'. 'Fruits' if you're talking about different species' fruits perhaps but the plural of one type of fruit is fruit.Number36 (talk) 12:24, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Arborescent?

In the first sentence the word 'arborescent' is used, but I don't know whether that's intended to describe the saguaro's tree-like shape and character, or the woody structure of its trunk (I thought there are only woody ribs, not a solid wood trunk?). Anyhow, the term arborescent is linked to the eponymous concept in philosophy, which could conceivably if contrarily describe the plant's shape, although not its structure. In that article there was then a hatnote pointing those looking for the botanical meaning towards the article on woody plant, which would be right if arborescent here means the woody structure. Does anyone know which is the intended meaning, ie. which better describes the saguaro? Or would it be easier and clearer just to replace arborescent with 'tree-like' or words to that effect? DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:22, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

In botany, it has the meaning that Merriam-Webster online gives: "resembling a tree in properties, growth, structure, or appearance", so I think that substituting "tree-like" in the lead is a good idea. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:31, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, that was my first thought also, but didn't want to go ahead and just assume. Thanks for making the edit. DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:14, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

units

this is a general-interest article on an article with strong ties to the us; per MOSNUM us-customary units are appropriate.

-mcpusc (talk) 08:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. This is an article about a species of plant, primarily curated by WP:PLANTS. As such, it's a scientific article. Look at the list of references. Also the infobox is a taxobox, setting out the taxonomy of the species. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:56, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I want to put something in Saguaro.

I want to add the fact that saguaros are protected into the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by THE SAGUARO IS THE BEST CACTUS (talk • contribs) 14:21, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

The "Conservativion" section already describes that. If you have a specific addition, please propose exact wording and provide a reliable source to back up your claim. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 00:36, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Food for wildlife and people

I find the section As food" misleading as it seems to me to imply that it's inedible by humans, since the section makes no mention of human consumption; yet the later section Ethnobotany does. I suggest changing the title "As food" to "As food for wildlife", similar to the section "Food for wildlife" in the dandelion article, as one way of fixing this. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 14:18, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

@Coppertwig Good suggestion, implemented. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 18:46, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

culture

The O'odham peoples views on the Saguaro and its importance to their culture could be added - their views as the cactus being people and its origins

https://repository.arizona.edu/bitstream/handle/10150/550735/dp_02_01-002-061.pdf?sequence=1

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/sagu-saguaro-cacti-plant-story.htm#:~:text=The%20various%20O'odham%20peoples,increase%20protections%20on%20the%20species. Artemis1414 (talk) 19:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Applied Plant Ecology Winter 2024

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 January 2024 and 20 April 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Artemis1414 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Warmedforbs (talk) 01:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)