Talk:Lapua Movement

The conviction compared to the treatment of Red rebells

Wallenius and about 50 other leaders were sentenced to prison. The conviction was however very lenient, compared to the treatment of the defeated Reds after the Civil War, of whom over 20.000 lost their lifes during and after prosecution.'

bolded text is what's questioned below

Sez you. Thats POV, and has no place here. Sam [Spade] 12:51, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Would you please care to elaborate on this? /Tuomas 18:40, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It is POV to speculate on what was a fair punishment for what were very different offenses. Excess of nationalism is very different from blatant communism, betrayal to ones enemies, in other words treason. Sam [Spade] 14:52, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The text doesn't judge on fairness, but on the other hand, Sam Spade's idea that extremist right-wing rebells wanting to abolish democracy should be judged more favorably (by Wikipedia!) than half a people (chiefly Social Democrats) fighting for parliamentarism with social reforms as their goal, that is nothing but pushing the agenda of the (semi-)fascist Lapua Movement and IKL 50 years after their abolishment. In Germany, it would be dangerously close to criminal propaganda. (I believe Finland, that wasn't occupied by the Allies, thus has less draconic laws.)
--Ruhrjung 15:22, 2004 Nov 6 (UTC)

I didn't say judge more favorably, I said we aught reserve judgement.. wikipedia is not here to judge history, mon frere ;) Sam [Spade] 01:03, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia is here to report history. And the difference in treatment is notable, well worth mentioning, and not without explanatory value for other events in Finland's history.
--Ruhrjung 06:56, 2004 Nov 7 (UTC)

There is no comparison of punishment between those who betray a nation to its enemies, and those who proudly proclaim an excess of patriotism. Your analogy is false. Sam [Spade] 02:53, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

No, but who betrayed a nation to its enemies? The white senators who colaborated with the Russian revolutionary government to undermine the Tokoi senate's so called "Power Act"? Are you sure, you haven't mistaken 80 years old White propaganda for facts? /Tuomas 10:41, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Regardless, this is an article about the Lapua Movement, not communist insurgents. Sam [Spade] 15:45, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

However, the Lapua Movement was about those Communists (and Social Democrats, and Liberals, not to forget) who had "strange" ideas promoting parliamentarism and who prefered republics for strong leaders. The comparison is more than relevant. The disproportionate treatment put the Finns in a bad light in countries, like France, Britain and Sweden, where this would turn out to be critically disadvantageous, and it promoted the later Allied propaganda on alleged Finnish Fascism. (Beside adding salt to the sores of the Finnish society.) --Johan Magnus 17:45, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree the phrase should be removed, as it was about the whites, not the reds, but, I would like to point out, the reds weren't traitors, as they were not aiming to melt Finland as a part of Russia, but instead create, well, pretty much what Finland is these days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.157.101.132 (talk) 18:50, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Isänmaallinen Kansanliike

I have no knowledge of Finnish, however I have read somewhere that another name for this Lapua movement was Isänmaallinen Kansanliike, if this is correct maybe it should be added somewhere in this article. Nagelfar 18:31, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Nagelfar, what you asked is already made clear in the first paragraph of the very article:

"Lapua Movement (Lapuan liike) was a political movement in Finland, started in 1929, initially dominated by ardent anti-communist nationalists, emphasizing the legacy of the nationalist activism, the White Guards and the Civil War in Finland, however soon turning into more of a Fascist movement. The Lapua Movement was banned after a failed coup-d'état in 1932. Ironically, the banning was done under the Protection of the Republic Act, which originally was dictated by the Lapua Movement. The activities were then continued in IKL (Isänmaallinen Kansanliike)."

So after the Lapua Movement was banned, those supporters who still were for it had to find a parliamentary way to continue their anti-democratic activism. This resulted to foundation of Isänmaallinen kansanliike the same year. It's notable that although the original Lapuans and their supporters were from the conservative and rightist wings of both major non-socialists Finnish parties, Agrarians and Coalitionists, the new IKL party was comprised almost exclusively of the latter's right-wing side. The National Coalition party's support for IKL in 1933 elections, and their failure in those elections further grew the split inside Kokoomus and led it towards moderate policy under Paasikivi. 130.234.163.60 10:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)