User talk:Camembert/archive 5

Jaw harp

Yes you are right! Mungiga is swedish. I wrote it there and if I did something similar to Susning.nu it would be considerated as spam and immediately removed :-) If you would like the translation to swedish of any musical instrument then maybe I can help you out? Just write to me (in english of course) at my nickpage at susning.nu (use the link in the signature to get there) click "[Redigera den här sidan]" at the bottom of the page to open the editor, "[Förhandsgranska]" = Preview, "[Spara]" = Save. See this as one of the first cross wikipedia, cross nation discussions ever :-) \\ Solkoll of Susning

a super conductor

Did you see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=List_of_conductors&oldid=2167419 ;-) -- Viajero 11:01, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Heh, no, I missed that one. Do you think I should look it up in Grove and see if I can start an article ;-) --Camembert

chess variants

"Zillions Of Games" is an authoritative source. They are the ones doing the cataloguing. "Nearly 1000" was not a vague estimate. The exact present number is "958". See for yourself. Please allow my update of this number from "several hundred". --OmegaMan

I don't agree that Zillions of Games is an authoritative source - many chess variants do not have Zillions of Games versions (there's no sign of patrol chess of grid chess, for instance, or even of progressive chess, which is very popular), and many Zillions of Games games are not chess variants. --Camembert

There are only 3 possible, modern authoritative sources on chess variants. Admittedly, "Zillions Of Games" is imperfect but to exclude it as not having credibility is irresponsible. "ZOG" is ground zero to chess variant creators. Their catalog only includes those chess variants which have been implemented for the Zillions program.

The Chess Variant Pages has a larger catalog which includes many chess variants that have not (with no games from other categories). Of course, other chess variants exist which are not included in either catalog. For now, the number can remain unchanged with my consent (due to its triviality) but it is arguably much too low. --OmegaMan

I disagree with some of what you say, but if you're happy enough with the article as is, that's fine. --Camembert

arbitrators with multiple accounts

On Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee, you wrote, "I may be missing something, of course." Some of what you were missing may be found on User talk:UninvitedCompany. Cheers, Cyan 02:12, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Thanks - it doesn't quite look like the whole story, but it's good to see what's there anyway. I think (hope) when we get on to discussing privacy and openness and so on as it will apply to the arbitration committee, all will become clear. --Camembert

Hello. Perhaps my recent editing of gamelan will interest you. Michael Hardy 22:10, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing it out - I daresay Kunst knows what he's talking about, but I am going to double check my sources, because I'm sure I read somewhere that octaves were not uniformly 1200 cents (I seem to remember also seeing lists of frequency measurements such as those you quote from Kunst, though it wasn't Kunst I read). I may have been imagining it, I suppose - it's not something I've ever seriously studied. --Camembert

Update - an anon editor removed the info from the article saying "K. is now known to have fudged his data to get perfect octaves" --Camembert

Heads up. If you have been thinking of starting an article on Einojuhani Rautavaara, now is not any worse a time than other. The news is that he ruptured an aorta and is on life support in an intensive care ward. One of course hopes that he will make a full recovery, but... -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen 04:04, Jan 29, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks - I'd not heard the news. I'll see if I can put an article together tonight. --Camembert

OK, I've made a start, but there's needs to more there eventually, of course. Here's hoping he makes a recovery. --Camembert

Please protect New Imperialism and encourage Wik to discuss his issue with my text at the appropriate talk page. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Sorry, I'm not going to get involved. This isn't in any way a reflection of my opinion on the dispute (I don't have an opinion on it, I've not looked at it), but is just because I don't have the time or inclination to look at these sorts of issues. --Camembert

Do you need to look at an edit war in order to protect it? Lirath Q. Pynnor

Doesn't matter what it looks like, I personally wouldn't protect it. That's not to say it wouldn't be right to protect it - I just don't want to get involved in these inter-personal disputes any more (and that would apply no matter who was involved, as I hope you know). Sorry. --Camembert

Thanks for E flat correction, Camembert. I wish I could stay awake better while editing... Opus33 17:33, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No problem - I know the feeling :) --Camembert

Have you heard about DHMO? It's present in more than trace amounts in most varieties of cheese sold in the US and Europe. Dihydrogen monoxide has also been detected in "black ice" on roadways, which has been linked with many fatal and near-fatal traffic accidents. [1] --Uncle Ed 21:27, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Heh - I wasn't there, I didn't see it, nothing to do with me... --Camembert

Re pitch notation, it seems to be a MIDI/piano/thingy-esque thingy , but essentially, the first C on the keyboard is C0, then the first D, D0, and so on. Dysprosia 03:32, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Battle of Gravelines

Thanks, re: Battle of Gravelines - I am not familiar with it and didn't find enough in the test creation to make a stub out of. - Texture 20:40, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No problem. I had a couple of books handy, so thought I may as well knock a little something together. --Camembert

Black Dyke Band

Hi, sorry to bother you but would you please consider swapping over Black Dyke Band and Black Dyke Mills Band? I don't think I can do it when the new destination already exists.

My reasoning is that Black Dyke Band is the correct name for the band and should be where the entry is; Black Dyke Mills Band is merely a previous name and though it should certainly be in as a redirect, it should not be the primary target for the entry. What do you think?

Thanks, Nevilley

Nice one, thank you very much. Nevilley 14:59, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No problem. Would've told you I'd done it, but my connection broke straight afterwards, then somebody came to the door, then I forgot... I'm sure Black Dyke Band is the better title if that's how they're (or "it's") known now. --Camembert

168

Hi, you voted on the issue of whether 168... should be desysoped. Following this, he was temporarily desysopped. Please participate in the new vote as to whether that temporary desysopping should now be reversed until the committees can deal with it properly. Thank you. Angela . 00:45, Feb 22, 2004 (UTC)

Looks like this has been sorted out now, thankfully, so I can chicken out of anything more to do with it. --Camembert

Public domain

You may be interested in the Public Domain Dedication and dedication form from Creative Commons. Also, when you upload images, if you mark them with {{msg:PD}} then everyone will know that they're PD, which is nice. Martin 18:50, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Will do, and cheers. Will look at the CC PD thing later (probably looked at it once before months ago and then forgot all about it). --Camembert

Die Drei Pintos

Thanks for correcting my addition to the Carl Maria von Weber article. I too am eager to fix the mistakes of the 1911 EB, but I guess it's not much better if I introduce brand new mistakes of my own. I had gotten the W volume of the New Grove, but when I saw how long the Weber article in it was and how long the Wikipedia article was, I realized I didn't have time to compare the two articles, so I just added that paragraph about Mahler and Hindemith off the top of my head. I will be much more careful, and allot a serious block of time the next time I try to work on a 1911 EB-sourced article. Del arte 16:20, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Don't worry about it - everyone makes mistakes, eventually they all get corrected :) (longer response on your talk apge). --Camembert

You're right. Thanks. Del arte 13:29, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

you are

in trouble again.

just kidding, Kingturtle 00:17, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

If I ever suffer a Wikistress-induced breakdown, I'll be sending the psychiatrist's bill to you ;) --Camembert

AC votes

When you have a moment, could you vote in the matters of Plautus satire and Wik? --mav

From a fan

Your work on Lulu, not to mention other articles, including a lot of music related articles is amazing, and impressive - a veritable asset to the Wikipedia. Keep up the good work you do :) Dysprosia 02:11, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thank you, Camembert!

So the smear campaign list is useless here. OK, but thanks for asking. Groucho Marx had put it better in the pre-Wiki interglaciation era - Should I accept being a member of a club who accepts "me" as a member ? :O) Also thank you for your balanced, commending vote. Thus spoke reason. Please rest assured I am not intimidating anyone! I cherish, want and NEED justice. I want the editing game to be fair. I want excuses from those who maintain in writing that I am a "lier". These should be addressed in writing by perpetrators of well qualified libel against a practicing medical doctor. However, they must be put in writing in front of the Wiki community - for they dishonored the spirit of truth. I don't want it for me - I am not important. Truth is. Yours, sincerely - irismeister 09:39, 2004 Mar 24 (UTC)

You got it all wrong, Martin. I disagree with Pharisees. If we REALLY follow NPOV, we MUST let ALL viewpoints compete without deleting them without reading/listening/putting them in writing as if they didn't exist. NPOV is REAL post hoc balance, not neutering and ante hoc castration (so that no mean, median an mode could possibly exist.) The golden, harmonic and time-honored MEAN can ONLY form with ALL POVs stated as such. You NEED to look in the right direction (not always in the laser "guide" aka YOUR own tubular vision), you need to listen, not to diabolize/ban/ask for "evidence" of mistreatment when this is absolutely evident to the point of catching anyone's eye. BTW - you may find it useful to read even the evidence in Wiki by running searches with "lier" and "quack". Even outside my lawyer's dossiers there is plenty for anyone to see and judge. Happy editing quand même - irismeister 08:59, 2004 Mar 24 (UTC)

More evidence for libel from a trusted party

Admission of tort, libel and harassment [2]

"I admit I said that he either needed to admit he didn't mean his 2nd statement, or else admit that he had been a liar in making his original statement. My patience was wearing thin, I admit. You may judge whether I have acted wrongly."

Aggravating, inexcusable, continuing libel [3]

"Irismeister is a quack and a nutcase. There! (Ah, that felt good to say!)

BTW, the definition of libel is simple, and comes directly from the Wiki trusted, NPOV source:

Libel and slander are two forms of defamation (or defamation of character), which is the tort of making a false statement of fact that injures someone's reputation. When the communication is in writing, it is termed "libel". If made via the spoken word, the correct term is "slander". Both acts share a common legal history, although they may be treated differently under modern legal systems. The statement need not be derogatory in itself to be actionable, as where it constitutes invasion of privacy or portrays the person in a false light, as by calling a prominent Democrat a Republican.

Instrument Transposition List

So I was thinking I could give you a list of instruments and their keys as found in western classical music along with a short musical snippet of the written pitch and the sounding pitch. I could email you a pdf, or tiff, or eps. The entire thing could be a graphic, or you could create numerous individual graphics of each sample and place it next to plain text. The nice thing about having a whole graphic would be that the musical symbols could be incorporated into the text with great ease - I'll leave that up to you. What say you? Ryan

I certainly think we should separate out the text and the images as much as we can. But thinking about this a bit more, I'm not sure there's a lot of value in having images to represent the transposition of every transposing instrument. Wouldn't it do to just give one or two examples in notation and then, once the reader has got the general idea, give them a list of the keys other transposing instruments play in without notation? This could likely be done as a section within transposing instrument. I may have a go at something like that myself, but I'll muse on it a bit more for now. If you want to do anything in that direction before I do, then you should go ahead, of course! If you want to send me anything in the meantime, my email address is lee (at) audiblerecords (dot) com. --Camembert

Notation

Thanks for the picture of breve notation. Is there any chance of the corresponding rest, and (if there is), the demisemiquaver rest, the hemidemisemiquaver and its rest, and perhaps some of the longer rests (although there's no article to cover them yet). Warofdreams 19:13, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yep, no problem. I'll do the breve rest now. I'm nipping off for a bit soon, but I'll look at doing those other rests later tonight. --Camembert

I've done the breve rest, the demisemiquaver rest, and the hemidemisemiquaver note and rest. I don't think there are any other gaps, but if there are, give a shout. --Camembert

Classical music

Hi cheeseboy, someone is suggesting that Classical music should be moved to "Art music", please see its Talk page. As a fat cryptofascist obsessive control freak I naturally have a view on this and I wondered if you did. I am away for a little while now so I will see what exciting developments have taken place on my return. All good wishes, Nevilley 11:22, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I've chucked in my ha'pennorth. I'm now going to go and move everything around so that when you come back, you can't find anything :) --Camembert

You are right. N. Zaslaw in his 1997 introduction to C. Hogwood 'The Symphonies' edition reports the 'Odense' authenticity as questioned (like for several other works of the years around 1770), whereas A. Greither in 1962 gives the K16a symphony as lost. Thanks! Bergonzc 08:30, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Draw by mutual agreement

Hi, please take a look at Draw by mutual agreement; I've written a couple of rules that I seem to remember being enforced but yet can't seem to find in the FIDE rules. Thanks. Arvindn 17:09, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Will do. Bit short of time just now, though - I'll have a proper look later tonight. --Camembert

OK, I checked, and I think that a lot of things fall under the "do not distract your opponent" law, 12.5. Things like the same player not offering a draw twice in a row might be codified as illegal in the rulesets of some national federations - I don't know (might be worth looking into) - but not in the FIDE laws. It's all down to the arbiter's discretion. --Camembert

from user page

moved by Lee

[barnstar image cut]

I award you this barnstar for your fantastic work on chess and in particular chess problems. -- Arvindn 18:21, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm flattered - thanks very much :) A simple "thankyou" or "nice job" would be enough, though - I find the barnstar thing a little bit silly. --Camembert

irismeister

Say something unpleasant about that charming fellow - *moi*???

I had forgotten about that, actually. It wasn't helpful of me, was it? (although subsequent events make it less off-the-cuff than it seemed at the time). You have my great respect for arbitrating in that heated area! Alas, Wikipedia's exponential growth seems to be creating a super-exponential growth in heated areas. - DavidWBrooks 01:59, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Chromatic

I think I've seen both fingerings, but now that you mention it, the 3 on all black keys is possibly more prevalent. By the way, do we have any convention for storage of the .ly source files? It seems to me that we should keep them around but I know of no good mechanism for doing so. UninvitedCompany

Removing sexist words

I have been removing sexist words from several chess pages at Wikipedia. How did I do?? Do you have any feedback?? 66.245.74.77 02:32, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm all in favour of eliminating the sexism from those pages, but I've slightly altered some of the changes you made. In particular, I've changed things like "moving the king" to "moving their king", as there are, after all, two kings on the board.

can you elaborate? In “moving their king”, the their must refer to the players, not the king, so what does the number of kings on the board have to do with it? And therefore there must be at least two people playing the side in question—perfectly possible, of course, but surely not the more common case? quota

Perhaps I wasn't entirely clear in my explanation. I must admit, I've always been more concerned with edits to articles than with talk page exchanges, so I may not have been as careful with my explanation as I could have been. Frankly, I didn't realise it was going to come under such scrutiny.

I am not wedded to any particular wording. If you want to edit the articles in question, do feel free. So long as the result reads well, I'm not going to complain. --Camembert

I just feel the latter reads a bit better. There was also one edit of yours which I completely reverted--this was at fifty-move rule. The "his" in that article is a direct quote from the official FIDE rules, and obviously, we have to quote them accurately, even if we might disagree with the implied sexism they contain. But on the whole, yes, I think you did OK. --Camembert

Trollkien

I have reworded my request for arbitration to take your comments into account. You may want to change your comments now as I am no longer asking you to make policy recommendations. Thank you for supporting the request to take on the case of JRR Trollkien. Angela . 01:38, Apr 10, 2004 (UTC)

Will do, and thanks for rewording :) --Camembert

Chess

Hi, I've started a discussion on which syntax(es) should be implemented for table-based chessboards. Your opinion is invited. Thanks. Arvindn 14:58, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'll have a look. Thanks for pointing it out. --Camembert

Do you happen to have a copy of Irving Chernev's "the 52 most instructive games of chess every played"? Arvindn 07:49, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

'Fraid not. Read it though. Why? --Camembert

I was asking because that book was where I read the off-the-board happenings in Pillsbury-Gunsberg. I can't find the book right now (in fact I can't find half my chess books after a 7 year gap). I wasn't entirely sure that it was Tchigorin looking like winning his game that made Pillsbury realize he needed beat Gunsberg, or something else. Do you happen to remember? Arvindn 03:06, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I don't know off the top of my head, but I may have something about it in some other book. I'll have a look. --Camembert

Language links in "Talk"

Thank you for your information concerning my question on linking language pages to talk pages. I am still fairly new, 4 days or thereabouts, and still am learning...

I see you may be interested in chess from this page, I wrote a page about a book by Stefan Zweig "The Royal Game" and wondered if you might take a look and make any alterations...

Calexico let me know what you think! Calexico 22:56, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

By the way, I'm curious - have you chosen your user name after the band, or the place, or something else?)

Well, I like the sound of the word a lot, i love the band (saw them last saturday in London as it happens) and also it features my first name in the middle... Calexico (Talk) 14:07, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Seems about the perfect username then. Hm, Exic... unusual name... ;-) --Camembert

I merged it first, which seemed like the right thing to do, and which would have made sense whether it had been VfD'ed or not. Are VfD'd articles considered locked for editing until the VfD matter is resolved? I believe that the best answer for most controversial articles on VfD is to merge and redirect, particularly in cases where the articles are small by themselves, as was the case in this instance. In my edits to Nerstrand, Minnesota I mention the school, which not (IMO) encyclopedic in its own right, but the mention does add to the city article.

Regarding consensus to redirect/merge, do you see VfD as a three- (or more-) way vote (keep/delete/merge), with the attendant problems in gaining any sort of consensus and clarity? Or do we vote on VfD first and redirect later? I'm not sure, and I thought by just performing the redirect/merge I could make the vote a little less polar since no material would be lost if the delete were to occur.

Finally, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of "Trinity Anglican Schools" worldwide. In fact, there's one about 10 miles from where I'm sitting that is probably more notable than the one in the article. UninvitedCompany 19:30, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

No, VfDed articles are not considered locked until the matter is resolved, they can be and are edited, but if you remove the content from such an article, then it becomes much harder for people to review what's being discussed. If it's likely that the article is going to end up being redirected and merged anyway, then that's not a problem, but I don't think it's clear that that will happen here (nobody has actually suggested merging the content in this case, as far as I can see).

My view, as you probably know from the VfD page in question, is that there's nothing wrong with these schools having fully blown articles (heck, some of them have bigger populations than hundreds of US towns we've got articles on!), but that's not really the issue here - I just think that when there is disagreement about what should happen to a VfDed page, it's better not to remove content from that page so as to better enable other people to see what the fuss is about. --Camembert

Oh, I forgot - regards many schools having the same name: the way round that, I suppose, is to just disambiguate as we would any other subject. So this article would be moved to Trinity Anglican School (Cairns), the one near you would be Trinity Anglican School (wherever you are) and so on. It's not really a reason to delete/merge, in my opinion. (In the short term, seeing as we don't have many links to the page, it might be OK to just mention all the ones we know of on Trinity Anglican School.) --Camembert

Thank you for your response regarding User:Wik. While I am not sure I agree with you, I understand your point and appreciate you taking the time to answer. Danny 03:44, 7 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, no trouble. If it'd been a little earlier, I would have probably been more verbose, but it was four in the morning and I was dropping asleep, hence my terseness. --Camembert

comment moved to talk:Romantic music

Anon reversion wars

Camembert, I'd like to bring to your attention the fact that Levzur has now begun a series of simultaneous reversion wars from anonymous proxy servers, making it very difficult for a number of editors to work on about 10 articles. I would be grateful for the Arbitration Committee's urgent attention in this matter. Details are at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/ChrisO_and_Levzur/Evidence#Anonymous_reversion_wars. -- ChrisO 11:59, 10 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll have a look later tonight when I've a little more time. If what you say is correct and he's just reverting anonymously without discussion, then I think it's likely we'll end up banning him without too much fuss. Sorry for the delay in dealing with this - the Wik thing has preoccupied us a bit just recently. --Camembert

I can understand that. :-) Many thanks. -- ChrisO 19:33, 10 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Tristan

Hi Camembert, I like the Tristan chord. But is there a typo? Where a midi link is advertised, the link has .png. Opus33 22:49, 11 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

<Camembert fixes problem and then replies:> By the way - if you can get it to play, can you let me know if it sounds too quick to you? Playing it in my browser, it seems fast to me (I mean, it's not very quick, but it's too quick for Tristan), but in an external player it sounds just fine. --Camembert

Interesting question--the file does sound quick to me, but is that simply because I prefer my Wagner slow and slurpy? I.e. I can't tell if I'm imparting to you a technical datum or an esthetic judgment!

Either way, I'm alarmed that a midi file produces a different tempo on different equipment--would the greater length of an .ogg file be worth it to avoid this problem? Cheers, Opus33 14:34, 12 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, "quick" is probably a bit subjective to draw any scientific conclusions from... still, as you say, if it's playing at different tempi in different players, there's something up with it. I'll hold the .ogg option in reserve, and try to fix the file so it works properly in all players. I made it with Lilypond, which I've had other MIDI problems with, but it should be possible to edit it into shape. Thanks for the response. --Camembert

Toy piano

hi camembert, i will see to it that an original photograph of a proper toy piano will be added to the wiki (toiling in the dutch wiki, i do have to add the lemma some day): a picture made by me. good that you mentioned it: the one in the article looks rather awkward to me, i am sorry to say... oscar 23:51, 12 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, excellent. I look forward to it :) --Camembert

Gerald Moore

Hi, I created a stub for Gerald Moore awhile back but couldn't find much biographical info on the web, not even his DOB. Can you dig up anything on him? TIA -- Viajero 11:34, 16 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I managed to find a few other bits, but nothing very much, I'm afraid. Still, it's reminded me to get round to writing a bit about Elisabeth Schumann one day... --Camembert

A. Schnittke

"he died on a number of occasions" while "continued to compose". This finally explained to me the weirdness of his late music! :-))) --Humus sapiens|Talk 03:31, 18 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe he was de-composing? ;-) -- ChrisO 18:43, 18 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Heh

Op. 131

despite your comments, i do care. :) i agree, this is absolutely one of the greatest Beethoven works. i find myself mentally intruded upon by the presto, fifth movement at least once a week. --Johnwhite79|Talk

Temporary restraining orders

Hi Cam,

Thanks for your comments the other night re my proposal for temporary restraining orders. I've posted it to Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration#Proposal:_temporary_restraining_orders - see what you think! -- ChrisO 18:44, 18 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Chris. I'm a bit busy with other stuff just now, and I'm away for most of tomorrow, but I'll be sure to take a proper look on Thursday. --Camembert

Cheng Arbitration Request

Camembert, regarding your suggestion that I first "politely ask the person in question to change it", I did so on this talk page on March 28, in the section beginning "I dispute TheLocalChurch's use of the moniker..." You can read TheLocalChurch's response. Please let me know what further action I should take as far as "politely ask[ing]" goes. Thank you!--Nathan w cheng 18:57, 18 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I'll reply on you talk page. --Camembert

Apology

I apologize for the suggestion that you had not looked at the talk page of the article in question - it was out of line, and, you're right, I don't think that you would comment on an article like that without reading up on it. Believe me, I understand the sense that you're busy and not getting paid for this. I've got a Masters thesis to finish by Monday. :)

In any case, while I disagree with your position on arbitrating this matter, I do see where you're coming from, and it's a reasonable position. I just hope the users involved in this dispute will be responsible enough to find another way to sort out the dispute.

Take care, and I apologize once again. Snowspinner 02:48, 19 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Snowspinner, I really appreciate this :) I'll whitter on a little more on your talk page. --Camembert

Quotes

You commented:

“i don't see any advantage in a unicode apostrophe over a normal one (i see disadvantages, in fact), but anyway, an apostrophe is probably best avoided here)”

You’re quite right on the last point (nice edit), but the first phrase is mysterious. Wikipedia at the moment does not seem to be able to render the straight single and double quotes from the plain text we see when editing to the appropriate character in the HTML page (a straight quote is not an apostrophe). So we must put them in as Unicode escapes for now (other codings will not work with some browsers).

As soon as the software catches up, it will be easy to revert any uses of the unicode escapes to the simpler notation which is easier to edit. quota

Given that we all use keyboards with them easily available, and as they are the de facto standard on the net, I don't see anything very wrong with using " for quotation marks and ' for apostrophes. But I'm not a typographical expert, of course. --Camembert

Unfortunately, nor are most people on the net. But multiple wrongs don’t make a right :-). The problem is that the straight quotes are perfectly fine in the editing window (monocase font), but they are the wrong glyph when displayed in the rendered text font (proportional spaced). And they are much less readable. And almost ambiguous in some cases (in '96, the editors' excuse was feeble, too). quota

Music school vs conservatory

Hi, this afternoon I created an entry for conservatory (school) then later discovered music school. I suppose the two should be merged. Do you have any preference under which name? -- Viajero 15:15, 22 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

If I may butt in here with my 2d worth, I would go for Music school but also make sure that you lose no useful content by merging your article, and leave it in as a redirect. There was already a redirect for conservatoire and I have created one for conservatorium. My reasoning for this is that I believe that music school is much more widely understood than any of the other forms; that conservatory is confusing (greenhouses); and that we can't even decide whether to say the word in Latin, French or English. I feel it's sort of like all conservatoria are music schools, but not all music schools are conservatoria, if you see what I mean. I hope this is useful and not rude to be hopping in with my piffling weakminded comments before Capt. Cheeseperson has even set finger to keyboard, poor lamb ... Nevilley 15:55, 22 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

To a piffling, weak mind like mine, those piffling weakminded comments sound quite sensible. --Capt. Cheeseperson

ah but is this only because you are drunk? Enquiring minds need to know. :) Nevilley 23:12, 22 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

It's probably true that I'm more suggestible while I'm drunk (if anybody wants to convince me to sort out the mess of a thing that passes for an article on Carl Maria von Weber, now is the time ;), but I think I'd find your comments sensible even when sober :) --Camembert

Done. Pardon my ignorance, but I had never heard this usage of conservatory as greenhouse; I guess is it British thing. -- Viajero 09:41, 23 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Sir Anthony

Thanks for starting the article on Anthony Panizzi. I set myself to it several times but at each pass I shrank away from the task. Guess I was too impressed by the 11th edition article for my own good. Now, the father of librarianship has at last a concise and modern "entry" in this pedia. AlainV 03:42, 2004 May 24 (UTC)

No problem, and thanks to you for expanding it :) --Camembert

Wik continues to revert his user page even though he is banned.

Hello. If you view Wik's talk page history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Wik&action=history

You can see that Wik is still reverting his user page despite being banned. You mention that if he still reverts, he will be banned even longer. Well, it's not being taken into effect. --Quagga

Yes, I'm aware that Wik is still editing. Wik has had his editing privileges revoked for a week, and people may enforce that however they see fit, but I only have the same powers as other sysops - there's nothing in particular I can do about it. I would request, however, that you not make too big a deal of this: it is only a user talk page, and isn't having any direct effect on the encylopedia proper.

I don't remember saying that "if he still reverts, he will be banned even longer", by the way. Could you point out where I've said that, please? --Camembert

Hello

Hello Camembert, and thanks for the Tomkins spelling correction (oops!). I should finish my coffee before I start editing for the morning. :-) By the way, I'm quite impressed with your work here. (And I miss the op. 111 that used to be on your page.) Happy editing! Antandrus 20:08, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration committee: Mr-Natural-Health

This is a note requesting your vote in my complaint concerning Mr-Natural-Health. Accept/decline/abstain, just as long as it doesn't just go stale. Thanks :-) - David Gerard 10:05, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Humpy Koneru

Hi. You made this a redirect to Koneru Humpy but according to all the information I see on her, Humpy is her first name, not her last name. RedWolf 22:49, Jun 4, 2004 (UTC)

"Humpy" is her given name, yes, but as she's Indian, it goes after her family name, no? In any case, I've seen "Koneru Humpy" quite a lot. Of course, in English, the names are often switched round, so she's often known as "Humpy Koneru" too. I really don't mind where the article goes, though, I just wanted to cover all the bases, hence the redirect. --Camembert

Meet

Oh dear, I see I missed a meet. How would one know it was going on?? Or was it invitation only??

Not cross, just interested! :) --Nevilley 16:29, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Bit tied up at the moment - will reply tomorrow (short version: bugger! should've mentioned it on your talk page) --Camembert

Thanks very much for that - no problem. Another time maybe. Hope that whatever is keeping you away from here is pleasant! :) --Nevilley 07:30, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Michael Johns

Please review the history of Michael Johns. Let's discuss, unless you agree that you were suckered by an IP's stealth vandalism. --Jerzy (t) 02:13, 2004 Jun 9 (UTC)

Reply on your talk page. --Camembert

The point abt not being on Cleanup escaped me, bcz i did put it there. So using the word "suckered" was unjustified, and i should have had more imagination about my capacity for missing alternative perspectives, especially when using an inflammatory term; i apologize for (probably) giving offense (politely tho you responded), and for doing so recklessly.

In fact "suckered" cannot apply, bcz the IP did a good enough job protecting his pet article (48 of 123 edits are by 205....; nearly all the rest by IPs with similar editing rhythm) from Cleanup that no one but i should be expected to have caught it. I respect your reasons for the counter-reversion, and it may well be that User:Guanaco was just lucky in having put back the notice without knowing what the best reasons were, for doing the same rv he did:

Michael Johns needs NPoV & precision (e.g, worked for "former Pres GWHB" during or after his presidency?)

was added 21:09, 2004 May 30 Jerzy

(Just In - add Michael Johns needs NPoV & precision (e.g, worked for "former Pres GWHB" during or after his presidency?))

and removed w/o summary, & w/o any changes to the entry having been made, at 13:03, 2004 May 31 by 205.188.116.143.

(How did the h.b.u. Michael come up; is User:Guanaco on a Michael witch-hunt w/respect to other articles? FWIW, this IP has a strong interest in pop music, which is about all i know abt Michael -- tho i prefer to assume that that does nothing to strengthen my case.)

My inclination is to revert all the way back to my last, & in the summary note the sabotage of Cleanup, and then add back the Soviet Union link. (IMO using 1 word that will be perfectly clear for 95% of readers, and a 6-word hoverable link that will clarify for the remaining 5%, is one of the things HTML and the hover feature are about. But i agree that is minor in this. (In fact, i think the point of the "federal" edit was to mask the removal of the CU msg without a summary and with something too trivial to be controversial, and the week-later unassailable Soviet Union link, with a summary, was to put a stronger barrier to notice of the CU-msg removal.))

Of course it goes back onto Cleanup, and i think it should mention that the sabotage of CU process may justify special scrutiny for verifiability, preferably by a subject-expert, "as the sabotage puts good faith in question".

Do you object to that plan?
--Jerzy (t) 03:43, 2004 Jun 9 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me - I've edited Michael Johns in the way you suggest and relisted it on Cleanup - do check to make sure there's nothing else you want to do. --Camembert

We need to finish up JRR 1

People are getting restless. We need to close up Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/JRR Trollkien; I think the easiest way to do this would be to officially proclaim that he is, indeed, a reincarnation of 24/EntmootOfTrolls/&c., which will be quick and uncontroversial. The new section is here. Could you possibly have a look at it? Thanks. James F. (talk) 04:28, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

My bust I am sorry.No messageWHEELER 16:57, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Problems with pianists

FYI: Wikipedia:Help wanted#Copyright violations and POV material in many articles on pianists. -- Viajero 08:06, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Viajero, looks like trouble. I'll take a proper look at it tonight. --Camembert

Horn terminology

French Horn or just Horn? If interested in this question and its implications for the article here, please have a look at Talk:French_horn. It's not my instrument and I have no strong view, but I do have a vague feeling that the bloke raising it is probably right. Dunno about the wiki implications though - at least FH is self-disambiguating! :) --Nevilley 08:08, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hm, I'll have a look. My gut says that there's nothing terribly wrong with "French horn" (I mean, OK, it might not be French, but then you have the cor anglais...) and it is, as you say, a common name and self-disambiguating, which is useful. But if people can come up with a good way to arrange all the other articles (possibly including an as-yet-unwritten one about horns-as-instruments in general), then obviously we can dump the "French". I'll scrawl something on the talk page later. Sorry about being late at getting onto this, things have been a bit... hectic recently. --Camembert

Evidence at User talk:JRR Trollkien. Martin 21:42, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Evidence of what? I thought you and others wanted us to focus on the "sole issue" of whether sysops are allowed to ban obvious trolls. I think I'd better go over that whole case properly and try to work out what the hell is going on with it (but not now). --Camembert

Edit attribution bug

Thanks for the tips! I think I see what you mean. -- Netoholic 19:17, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

My Arbitration Case

As the Wikipedia is currently experiencing technical difficulties which prohibit me from editing or defending myself, I expect you to relay this message to the rest of your committee.

The rules are quite clear that, prior to arbitration, a plaintiff must attempt to resolve the issue via the mediation committee -- as Snowspinner has not done this, I expect the committee to follow its own rules and insist that Snowspinner attempt to resolve his personal issues with me, by discussing with me in a mediated fashion.

I am happy to accept mediation and believe that mediation, on this issue, is long overdue. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Beethoven 32

Hi Camembert, Sorry to hear you're deemphasizing classical music, since I've enjoyed reading your contributions in this area. Maybe you can come back when you have more time...

You mentioned you were interested in editing Piano Sonata No. 32 (Beethoven), which I think you would agree needs some TLC. Are you still planning to edit it? If not, I'll try to fix it up some. Opus33 19:52, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Camembert. I'll give it just a bit of work to try get it in first-pass shape. Opus33 03:00, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Biblical thingie

The first shall be last and the last shall be first. Hello again. Ortolan88 22:59, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Pinchas what's his name

Hi. I just noticed that he's gone back to being "Zukerman" again, which is fine with me. Only I wouldn't want you to think I went around making random changes just because I thought it had a "c" - it was all over the place when I started, and I just tried to make it consistent, using what I then thought was the correct spelling. (Of course, I know better now...) Deb 21:39, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Oh of course. It was a right mess, you were just trying to tidy it up--don't worry, I understand :) All sorted out now, that's the main thing. --Camembert

Thanks!

Thanks for your informative explanation of how to fix a double redirect at Talk:Horn (instrument). I don't know why I didn't think of/realize that :-) Also, I don't really have anything against the name "French horn", I was just updating the pages to be more in line with the "preferred" terminology. --bdesham 19:41, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

No problem--quite a few people seem to fix double redirects in that way, so you weren't alone. Glad it helped :) --Camembert

IRC access to #arbcom

I've set the channel to invite-only, so you'll need, the first time you try to login, to get yourself invited; if no-one is about at the time, use:

 /msg chanserv invite #arbcom.wikipedia

... and then:

 /join #arbcom.wikipedia

... as per normal. Once there, perform:

 /mode #arbcom.wikipedia +I Camembert

... and you won't have to get invited again.

HTH.

James F. (talk) 04:00, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)